Question for the experienced Rockhound

[hydrogeologist]

I know Rock and Gem magazine magazine ran a series of Texas roadside collecting sites a few years ago, probably in 2007 or 2008. These sites were public easements or creeks along roads in areas known to have mineral specimens and gold. Might be a good place to start.

Lawrence

[ira]

Thought I would throw my two cents in. Disclaimer: Don't be offended if I state the obvious here as I don't know which directions you've already looked nor do I know your skill level...

First stop is books (sounds like you have already explored this avenue)- In my mind you can never have too many guide books for the state you live in or the surrounding states. Here in Colorado there are five major volumes dedicated to my state in the last twenty years or so. Now, I know a lot of people bag on guide books; the normal complaint I hear is that most all of the material at a given site has been collected long ago. Well... that may be true but there is still something to be gained at even well picked over sites. You get to see the surrounding geology associated with the rock or mineral you're hunting for. This knowledge can be used while walking/hunting in BLM lands.

Your local BLM office- Find out where BLM lands are in your area. Texas is a massive state and I can only assume there is ample public lands to roam on. Remember there are mineral discoveries waiting to be made in almost every state... many of these will be found on public lands. You may not find the amethysts you're looking for out in the badlands but there is plenty of petrified wood, agate, calcite and barite in these areas to keep yourself entertained while you plan a trip to the locality of your choice.

Google Earth- As a former land surveyor I can tell you that Google Earth is an extremely powerful program if utilized properly. Here's a couple of personal examples. My favorite area for rockhounding is the Yellow Cat Flats/Poison Strip area in Utah. Once I got home from my first trip there, I got onto Google Earth and surveyed the site from the air... using the available pushpins to mark out areas we had done well in. Then I began looking for other sites in the same area... all sites visited get a pushpin and a description of how we did and whether my wife and I liked it. I used this same technique to pinpoint guide book destinations in Wyoming three weeks ago. I believe mapping my trip out first, helped optimize our time and allowed us to visually see the various drainages we would be hunting agate and petrified wood in. More recently I have mapped out an entire day of rockhounding in an area of Colorado that I've never been to before. My wife and I will be frolicking in the badlands to the south of Dinosaur National Monument this coming Monday morning. I've never been there before, but after a few hours of aerial surveying I know what to expect and I know the lay of the land.

About public access to waterways and drainages- Check your state trespass laws. Here in my cheesy state (at least politically) all water ways were deemed non-navigatible. That means if I were to access a public water way (say the South Platte for instance), which is surrounded by (or flows through) private property... from a right of way (a public bridge). The moment that my foot touches the streambed I would be guilty of tresspassing. I'm told that in Wyoming and Montana that is not the case and that I would be able to fish or rock hound up or down stream as far as I wanted as long as I didn't exit the stream above the high water mark.

Hope that this has been helpful.

Good luck hunting in Texas! Post pics when you have the time.

Ira

[stevebarr]

Ira’s suggestions are all really good ones, and should be taken to heart.

I did a little bit of internet research for you, and came up with an interesting link that might be helpful. Here’s one that caught my eye. Scroll down to the section about the BLUE TOPAZ in Mason County. That would be VERY sweet to collect. Here’s the link:
geology.uprm.edu/Morelock/29Mas.htm

Sounds like it might be time for you to take a ROAD TRIP!!!! Go further down on this page and there is information about some sites where you can dig your own for a small fee. Woohoo! You can click on the links to find out more. They would probably all be fun, but the Sequist Ranch caught my eye. It says you can find topaz there as well as quartz in different colors. Go get ‘em, girl!

[stevebarr]

Can anybody else on the board who is familiar with rockhounding in Texas jump into the discussion and help Amethystgirl out? Since she's new at this, prolific locations would be great. I know they're rare in Texas, but some do exist. And, if any experienced rockhounds in her neck of the woods will invite her to tag along with them sometime so she can learn more about this hobby, I'll send you a cool southeastern rock as a thank you!

[stevebarr]

I explored the link I posted a little more. One section of it mentions private property where you can pay a fee to collect Crinoids and other fossils. This might be worth checking out, if fossils interest you:
geology.uprm.edu/Morelock/16SSab.htm

This section of that same website has directions to a site in a roadcut that they say has an abundance of fossils. geology.uprm.edu/Morelock/71Brad.htm

(And, if you’re not the biggest fan of fossils….remember that you could go collect them, then swap them to people on this board for rocks and gems!)

Here’s a link to mindat.org’s list of known localities in Texas. Be careful, though. Many are not accessible to the public, so you have to do a little research and may have to talk to people to gain permission to collect:
www.mindat.org/lsearch.php?from=nsearch&loc=Texas

These links might also be helpful:
www.ehow.com/facts_6458662_gem-mineral-hunting-texas.html
rockcollecting.meetup.com/cities/us/tx/austin/
www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=111955749008
www.wma-minelife.com/uranium/papers/karnes.htm
www.brightok.net/~rockman/TxCelest/TxCelest.htm
www.findingrocks.com/cgi-bin/viewlocations.cgi

And, if you’re feeling adventurous and want to do a little driving, how about a trip to New Mexico?
hpgarland.blogspot.com/2007/02/fluorescent-mineral-collecting-bingham.html
www.rockhounds.com/rockshop/nmsites.html
www.peaktopeak.com/blanchard/

[stevebarr]

Rob Whaley sent you this reply, but it somehow ended up in a different part of the system, so I've retrieved it and copied it for you:
Hi Amethystgirl,
I did some collecting in Central Texas when I was in grad school at Austin. Enter "Mason, TX Seaquist ranch" on Google and you will find an entry describing 3 fee-basis topaz collecting sites not too far from Austin. In 1973 I found a perfect 30 carat topaz crystal at the Seaquist Ranch. I saw other collectors find them up to walnut size. They are not common, but when you hit one they are excellent.
Near Llano, there is an outcrop of "Llanite," a granite with blue quartz that takes a great polish. It was plentiful, but took heavy tools to extract; the location is on the NE side of a highway to the west of Llano (just ask locals-they probably know the exact location).
In creeks near Georgetown, TX I found Pyrite nodules up to 3 inches in diameter; they had a beautiful brassy finish. Just look for rust stains in the limestone banks of the creeks and dig out the nodules there. There were also large Ammonite fossils in these creeks.
Happy hunting!
Rob Whaley

[CrossfireBusiness]

Iam interested in results of this question as well ... I read an old book gem trails of nj and pa that was last updated in the new edition in 2000 but thats a decade ago ... They mention that in NJ as long as you do not step out of the creek you are not tresspassing ... but they didnt mention anywhere anything about PA which Iam very interested in knowing if that rule applies there as well if it even still applies in NJ

[stevebarr]

I Googled “laws about access to streams and rivers” and came up with the following links that might be helpful.

www.tpwd.state.tx.us/publications/nonpwdpubs/water_issues/rivers/navigation/sweeney/

www.nj.gov/it/ps/07-12-NJOIT_web_accessibility_policy.pdf

www.fish.state.pa.us/water/public/faq_public_waters.htm

My advice would be whenever possible, ask a local resident or property owner before just assuming that you can wander around wading in a stream that goes through their yard or fields....even if you have the legal right to do so. Many are not going to want you digging in the banks of their streams, but others might just join you in your search. It never hurts to be polite. The worst thing they can say is “no”.

[41dave]

Ahh....such a good and confusing topic.

I took a hydrology course in college and we touched on the subject a little bit. As an avid kayaker, my professor was very knowledgeable on the subject as it affected his hobby.

In a nutshell this is what i remember of the discussion. Water access laws are so gray and fuzzy because they were written in common law, and has never been translated into modern terms. The subject comes up commonly with boaters, fly fisherman, and gold prospectors.

The professor had told us stories of where barbed wire had been strung across Wilson Creek to keep the yakkers out, even though they had a legal right to be there. How many times are you driving along a mountain road, you cross a stream with a trout fishing designation, with a barbed wire fence and no trespassing sign right next to it. I have a right to fish that stream if I stay in the stream, I know I have that right, the problem is the landowner doesn't know that right and thinks he/she is entitled to keep people out.

The problem as my professor explained is that in NC a stream deemed as a navigable waterway was open to use, the problem is, well what does navigable mean. At the time the law was written, it can't be proven, but only assumed that it meant if a sizeable log could be floated down the stream unimpeded, then the stream was deemed navigable. Ok, sounds great, then man built dams and mills. Does that nullify the whole thing? I would hope not, b/c it would be pointless to put a dam on a non-navigable stream in the first place.

The second problem is that odds are, if you wander up farmer joe's stream, he liable to shoot first and ask questions later. Not always that extreme, but you'll always find that they're right and you're wrong.

Coinciding with that is that, as explained by my professor. There is so much gray area in the law, so many loop holes, so many extenuating circumstances such as mineral rights, etc. that if you ever get caught in a battle over water access, you're likely to spend oodles of money on an attorney (most won't even touch a water access case) and never get anywhere, and because of that, the law has never been ironed out....whew!!!

a glimmer of hope!

www.carolinajournal.com/exclusives/display_exclusive.html?id=6477

We agree with the trial court and defendant that the canal, although manmade, is a navigable waterway held by the state in trust for all citizens of North Carolina,” wrote Judge Cheri Beasley for the Court of Appeals.

The state’s appellate courts have held that the lands under navigable waters are held in trust by the state such that “the benefit and enjoyment of North Carolina’s submerged lands is available to all its citizens, subject to reasonable legislative regulation, for navigation, fishing, and commerce.” This is called the public trust doctrine.

There’s a simple test to determine whether a body of water is navigable. As the N.C. Supreme Court stated in a 1995 case called Gwathmey v. State of North Carolina, “if a body of water in its natural condition can be navigated by watercraft, it is navigable in fact and, therefore, navigable in law, even if it has not been used for such purpose.”

another link:

"http://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/Wiki/access:nc"

I'm still with Steve, you're better off asking. And even if you're legally justified in accessing a stream, it might be in your best interest to fight the urge.

-Dave

[41dave]

ohh...who wants to join me on the steps of the state capitol in swimsuits and innertubes and demand that those be considered "watercraft"

[romare]

Thanks for the elucidation Dave. I have seen most all the aforementioned scenarios played out, often with myself involved. Bottom line is that it is always better to seek permission if there is a chance of a physical conflict or litigation. As one of my investors in the old software company said when I was ranting about suing someone who was infringing, "once it goes to court, everyone loses."

And this from someone who used to live by the maxim "better to ask for forgiveness than permission."

[stevebarr]

My suggestion to always ask first comes from a first-hand experience. I spoke to a woman in the Hiddenite area once and asked if she thought anyone would mind if I waded in a local stream and looked for rocks. The stream was definitely navigable, at least by a canoe or kayak. She said, "Oh, go ahead. Nobody will give you any trouble."

I spent about ten or fifteen minutes in the stream, and noticed there was barbed wire on the banks on each side. So, I stayed in the water the entire time. All of a sudden, I saw a little green emerald glittering in a rock on the bottom, and as I gleefully bent to pick it up, a shot rang out. A "gentleman" on his back porch had just fired a shotgun in my direction. Obviously, it was a warning shot because it missed by several feet. But, I got the message. I waved, and headed back upstream to my truck.

And yes, I kept the rock.

[Ryan]

Steve, you are very helpful and attentive of new members. You make this club easy to be a part of and keep it addicting. Thanks for being so nice to me when I signed up (PMs of sites and tips).

Anyways, good luck down in ole' Texas! I tell you from my experiences, traveling to get to a good site is almost always worth the ride. I live in Pittsburgh Pa and travel monthly to NC for work. I think even if I lost my tech-sales gig, I would still make the trips. Though my ride down is almost 8 hours ((to spruce pine dist. that is) 9+ hrs for Asheville/west. 6.5 hrs to Greensboro/Triad area))
they (each trip) are almost all responsible for a gem/mineral specimin (and a long story ) in my mineral shelf.
I digress... Anyways, the reason I posted is to tell you from experience, though the area you live in may be barren of fun minerology; the travels and collecting are almost always worth it and the specimins you keep and display will all have stories and adventures attached to them. So gas up the ride, take the right tools and snacks/water, and make a weekend out of exploring old mines, construction sites, or streams. Itll be worth it.

I remember my first trip up hurricane mt. (with a complete stranger I met in the woods! ha!) in Feb. winter conditions.
It was awesome to be up at an elevation of 4000 ft.; in nearly horizontal blowing sleet, and see a gaping old mine emerge from a clearing , like a 100 foot tall, screaming mouth silenced by time, frozen there, on the side of a mountain, flanked only by a few bare trees and grey sky... (Mas Celo). Then exploring it and collecting in and photographing it. Then the descent down with beautiful blue kyanite specimins; hard earned in bloody fingers and twisted ankles... Ahhh, The memories.... Its a real adventure sometimes. Good luck and good digging Amethystgirl

P.S. Dave; only if we wear banana hammocks. That'll get their attention in a hurry... I might bring one of the big innertubes with a duck head. those are clearly watercraft...

[amethystgirl]

Thank you so much for posting all of your helpful hints, websites, and sharing your own personal experiences as a rockhound. I just had a chance to read all of yours responses, and am thrilled to see so much information from experienced rockhounds!! It will take me several days to go through all of the helpful information all of you experienced rockhounds have shared with me. I am totally thrilled to hear that we have more than the Woodward Ranch here in Texas. I called the Lindsay Ranch today and they are still open for rock hunting, however, its only available to the guests who stay at their guesthouses, and they are closed Sept.-December for hunting season.

Next year, I plan on exploring Colorado, so will be asking for help from some of you rockhounds who live in Colorado.