so answer me this

[nose2ground]

every time I have found a good artifact site, I have found quartz crystals? I read in an older book a while back that this was common, though the author could not figure out why. Something else I read said that the Cherokee would use quartz crystals for religious purposes, and that they would hide the crystals in a tree. Anyone know more about this?

fyi - the best quality crystal I ever found was at age 7 in an artifact site - thought it was a diamond. It became my pre-engagement gift for my wife, who now wears it around her neck. Thought that would be neat to share.

[arappaho]

You'd have to ask some of the Cherokee about crystals religious
meaning and the tree thing. I haven't heard about that one.
But, nose2ground, I think you kindof answered your own
question about as well as anybody can.
As you stated, many archaeologist have wondered what
significance quartz crystals may have had in prehistoric cultures.
And as you mentioned, one archaeologist thought the presence
of crystals at sites was/is common, though the author could not
figure out why. I knew an arch once that was excavating a site
and was finding 3 or 4 small quartz crystal flakes in the areas
of the hearths. He was thinking that maybe that culture would
ceremoniously chip a small piece off of a piece of crystal before
restarting their hearth fires. Ofcourse, without having been there,
these things are pretty hard to prove. ;D
And, furthermore, I think you did the exact same thing with your
first crystal that they would do with theirs. You gave it to your
wife for her to wear as a necklace.
It's a real good question, but I have not read of any good answers.
I want to know why you don't see more amethyst arrowheads!

Joe

[lee]

Joe: Have you ever seen an arrowhead made of amethyst? As you are aware, we are finding some amethyst around the Wake Forest area; but to my knowledge, I have never seen an arrowhead made of that material. As to finding a quart crystal in the areas known to be locations where indians stayed, I have not ever found such a crystal; but I have found several spear points that were made of crystal clear quartz.

[arappaho]

No,Lee, I have never seen an arrowhead made out of amethyst
from collections around here. Very curious isn't it? I have seen a
couple at shows or fleamarkets or somewhere, but there's no
telling where they 'really' came from. My suspicion is that
amethyst is more brittle than clear crystal and so even if they
were able to make an arrowhead, or anything, out of it, it would
break easily, so why bother. I don't know if their is any truth in
my assumption about amethyst being more brittle?
And, yes, I don't find quartz crystals on many sites either. As a
matter of fact, I usually only find them on sites where they could
occur naturally.
I would have to do a whole lot of research ;D but off the top
of my head I can't think of any instance where quartz crystals
have been given special regard in burials, caches, or otherwise
in the archaeological record. The evidence really leans toward
them looking at the crystals as a source of good material, tho
maybe a very special material. In areas where quartz crystals
occur naturally there may be some record of special treatment.
So I don't know, but it's good stuff to bat around. ;D

Joe

[hydrogeologist]

An old friend of mine's dad has the REAL eye for artifacts and has been hunting them for years on farms in Avery County, NC (y'all should see some of the adzes he has, FOR REAL!!!!). He moved into a house in Fairview (outside of Asheville) he had rented out for years and found two water clear quartz points when he tilled up a new garden. Maybe I'm unlucky, the only artifacts I've ever found are plow-broken milky quartz points in corn fields outside of Enka-Candler. But maybe one of these days I'll get lucky. I just don't have the eye yet...

[nose2ground]

ah ha! found the book - it is called "The Cherokee People - The Story of the Cherokees from Earliest Origins to Contemporary Times" by Thomas Mail, 1996. Although I cannot attest to the validity of sources, it states that crystals were used for divining purposes - sometimes for war.

As for clear crystal arrowheads, have found 2 so far this year - and for the first time in 30+ years of searching the ground! So maybe the odds are one will be found if you look long enough (?).

And thanks for the info Arrapaho - always much appreciated.

[Chigoe]

I have seen many crystal clear arrowheads over the years that were found in the Central Savannah River Area (CSRA) around Augusta, Ga. I saw a beautiful knife about five inches long that a fellow Magma member has just yesterday. According to William Bartram, the famous botanist and surveyor sent by King George to survey Georgia (which at that time ended at the Mississippi River), the Indians in and around the CSRA were famous for crafting clear quartz arrowheads.

[nose2ground]

wow - thanks for the info - I will definitely look more into Bartram.

Considering that I lived the majority of my childhood and many adult years in Augusta and North Augusta, and never found anything! That, and one day read in the paper where a kid found an 11,000 year old arrowhead on the same playground I used to poke around! Just not my luck I guess.

These crystal points aren't by any chance from the Stallings Island culture?

[Chigoe]

Stallings Island was the capitol of the ancient Cherokee Nation several thousand years before the English settled here. Cherokee still occupied this area however, so it could very well
be the same culture. The knife I referred to was found on Schultz Hill, North Augusta along with points made from all types of material. Primarily, white quartz and Savannah
river Agate.

[nose2ground]

I had always thought that the Stallings culture was Creek, and that the Cherokee nation never extended below roughly northeast Georgia. Thanks for sharing that info!

Schultz Hill - having lived in N. Augusta over 11 years, I have absolutely no idea where that is. Can you help me locate (out of curiosity, I have no plans to go there and dig unless invited).

just out of curiosity Chigoe, are you familiar with the 1940 UGA survey that located about 13 shell mounds along the Savannah River from that culture (all north of Augusta) ?

[Chigoe]

It is my understanding that the dividing line between the Creek and Cherokee Nations was Little River which comes into Savannah River here on the Lake. There was a documented battle that was at the intersection of Little River, Savannah River and Keg Creek. I live on the lake at Chigoe Creek which is in between Keg Creek, and Little River.

Schultz Hill is the huge hill on the left side of Gordon Highway coming out of Augusta to wards Aiken. The Hippodrome is there now. I doubt if you can get permission to search there but I know of plenty of places that are accessible from Midville, Ga (where the Savannah River Agate or Burke County Chert points are) to Lincolnton, Ga. (where the white Savannah River Quartz points are).

Yes, I've heard of it but have not seen it. A friend of mine who was working with the U.S.D.A. Indian Affairs branch told me a little about them. They were off of Kiokee creek just down river from me. According to the shell mittens there was quite a large group there. I want to say 20 to 30 thousand but I'm not sure about that. This entire area has been heavily inhabited since who knows when. The Topper Site just below Augusta has revealed artifacts dating as far back as 25,000 B.C. Proving man was already here long before the Paleo period and the last Ice Age ended. This is one link for information on that one.
www.allendale-expedition.net/
Another good source of information is an online book the Corp of Engineers put out when building Hartwell Dam.
www.nps.gov/history/seac/beneathweb/btw-index.htm

From what I understand the CSRA was the first place ancient Indians first had permanent settlements. The oldest pottery in North America was found on Stallings Island and that dates back to around 3,500 B.C. if I remember right.

I have more Indian and artifact links listed in my msnblog at woodwizard.spaces.live.com/
along with tons of pictures from the area and or course lots MAGMA pictures. (you know. the ones Rick won't show in reports) ;D Just kidding. ;D

[nose2ground]

good grief! where were you when I was living there 15 years ago!

as much as I know I have strayed from original topic, I very much appreciate all of the info and links. Means a lot. Especially about the Cherokee and Creek history - never knew all that.

and I never knew that was Schultz Hill - last time I was there they had a K-Mart in that location. I never knew.