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Post by pcktfullofokenite on Feb 22, 2008 16:15:52 GMT -5
I have been an Ebay member for, coming up on, 10 years. If you haven't heard the news recently, Ebay wants to change the way you leave feedback. And not in a good way. Millions of mineral specimens and geology related products are sold on this website and I know members of this site use it. I can name 2 off the bat but I won't LOL. This change has angered quite a few people but mostly sellers. They want to make it where you can't leave any negative feedback against buyers for things such as non-payment. The feedback system is one of the most important parts of Ebay. It allows buyers and sellers to check on the integrity of the member in question. You wouldn't want to sell your product to someone who has a lot of negative feedback, conversly you wouldn't want to buy from someone who has a lot of negative feedback. I can imagine that some people have abused the system and maybe this is one reason for that change. My suspicion is that some young CEO, shareholder, or IT tech came up with this "no common sense" idea and talked the board into it. You certainly don't have to be intelligent to run a big company. That's OK though, I've got the solution for the problem. If I cant leave negative feedback, I'm going to list all the bad buyers that burned me and the feedback that goes with it and list it in the description portion of my sales. If it takes me a few minutes longer, who cares. Anyway, I posted a link for an online petition that speaks out against this change and describes it in more detail. I hope you can sign it. This is one change Ebay doesn't need. Please feel free to leave any comments here. www.petitiononline.com/ebayfdbk/petition.html |
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Post by dixieeuhedrals on Feb 22, 2008 16:45:14 GMT -5
I certainly am against sellers not being able to leave feedback . I sell 300 items a month , which is 3600 items a year . I encounter 1500 different ebay buyers in a year , and about 4 of them per year are really bad folks . I suspect there is quite a few people who try to get absolutely free or deeply discounted product from sellers . Your idea about listing the bad guys in the item description is not going to work . It is against ebay policy to mention an ebay member in the item description . This is to prevent what you want to do , and also to prevent people from advertising that their material is better/cheaper than ebay member XX .
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Post by sapphiregirl on Feb 22, 2008 16:53:43 GMT -5
I sell on Ebay too and find those buyers that do not pay for the item or they send foriegn currency to you. You would have to spend more money getting that exchanged than the item sold for. You can block the buyer or seller on your site. I detest the description smoky topaz since smoky is a quartz and not a true topaz. Or they put solid gold when an item is 10kt gold. That means that the gold is mixed with an alloy. The only solid gold is 24kt. But that is getting beyond things. One thing you can do is not accept PayPal and put your item as is, that has been upheld in courts of law. We had a very hard time with PayPal and they are not covered by FDIC. Ebay owns Paypal and you should see the numerous complaints. So I only accept money orders, credit cards and good checks.
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Post by mamakitty on Feb 24, 2008 18:45:58 GMT -5
We started selling/buying on eBay in 1996. Quit about a year ago and am so glad we did. Be careful, pcktfullofokenite, there used to be an obscure line in the eBay TOS that could get your suspended for including anything in your item's description area that does not pertain to that item. I know it's done all the time with no consequences but they're going to be especially sensitive to anything related to negative feedback now.
Good luck with the petition.
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Post by dr00bie on Feb 25, 2008 8:02:51 GMT -5
I'm not sure what they are trying to do here, I will have to do some further research... but as a buyer and a buyer only, I do have some problems with the feedback system.
If I win an auction, and pay the seller... the seller should provide feedback on that. I have been in the following situation.
I bought a small rough ruby and a corundum lot from one seller and had to pay $6 s/h per item. So I had to pay out $12 in s/h for a teeny, tiny amount of corundum. I thought the shipping and handling rates were too high, so after receiving the item, I posted negative feedback about their shipping rates. Since the seller had waited for me to post feedback first, then they posted negative feedback about me.
This is wrong.... I paid in full the price asked, and when I did that I should've been given good feedback. But instead, the seller waited for me to call them out on their out of whack s/h prices, so that they could get revenge... needless to say I will not buying any more crap from that seller...
Drew
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Post by dixieeuhedrals on Feb 25, 2008 9:00:03 GMT -5
Droobie , When you had to pay $6 per item , did you know this in advance ? If so , then why the negative as you knew up front what the charge was to be . Personally , I only charge what the actual postage is for the order . I am not defending high postage charges , I'm just asking if the shipping price was posted in the listing ( and also that they wouldnt combine orders ) ? Sometimes , ebay sellers try to make their profit in postage . As long as they make their shipping prices known , it is up to the buyer to make good or bad choices . Sometimes , the sellers do this to seem to have a better sales price and to avoid paying ebay their final value fee on the sale . For instance , I buy packing peanuts to use in packing and shipping orders . The peanuts cost me $3 and the shipping is $20 . I know the reason they do this is to pay 5% sales commission to ebay on $3 which would be fifteen cents , instead of on the $20 which is $1. On thousands of orders the $0.85 cents add up to a goodly sum at the end of the month . Often the buyer expects feedback after paying their money . It just doesnt make sense for the seller to automatically do this after getting a payment . If I did this , 25 percent of the people would then try to extort money out of me on their order . They would send sly messages like : " Hi , I got the book today . One of the pages was dog-eared . Can you give it to me at half off ? Let me know so that I can leave appropriate feedback "
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Post by dr00bie on Feb 25, 2008 14:39:04 GMT -5
Rodney,
The shipping prices were shown as $6 per item, but there was no statement as to whether they would combine shipping. Since I bought 100 carats of corundum, and 1 piece, I figured it would make sense for the seller to combine... to save them time. After winning both items, I contacted the seller to see if they would combine shipping... they said that they would not. But when I received my shipment, both items were in the same box with the same shipping... So the seller made out like a bandit with me... 1.5 oz (at best) of corundum shipped 300 miles for $12... just a little over the top...
In my opinion, the buyer has one responsibility, to pay in a timely manner. So after they have paid in a timely manner, the seller should post feedback. Now, if a buyer does try to extort money in the fashion you described, and in turn leaves negative feedback, then the seller should post a comment explaining why the buyer made a negative feedback.
I was once bitten, so now I am twice shy... now there are only a few people I will deal with on ebay... and they are very fair in their shipping rates...
Drew
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Post by 41dave on Feb 25, 2008 15:31:36 GMT -5
LOVE the great white reference!!!!
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Post by pcktfullofokenite on Feb 25, 2008 15:56:16 GMT -5
I agree with everyone's assesment of this. I actually know about the Terms-Of-Service rule about not mentioning user names in item descriptions but I have been fed up with Ebay for a couple years now and actually don't care if I get suspended, I'm trying to make a statement. I don't like the idea of being intimidated by buyers to leave good feedback if they don't deserve it. I just won't leave any at all. There are plenty of other good auction sites out there and I found I do better taking my things to public auctions anyway. I take all my mineral specimens to public auctions now and the only thing I list on Ebay is electronics and DVD's
Ebay is past it's prime. It survived the internet bubble-burst of the late '90's and is now just kind of stagnant I think. Sure its stock goes up from time to time but not at any great rate like Google.
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Post by kawill on Feb 25, 2008 18:13:14 GMT -5
Hi Drew,
I sold my highbanker on ebay a couple weeks ago. During a brain fart I put the shipping cost at $65. A few minutes later someone in Idaho bought it and it cost $149.00 to ship it. Boy did I lose out on this deal, but to be a good person and seller I stood by my terms.
Keith
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Post by sapphiregirl on Feb 25, 2008 18:57:52 GMT -5
Oh boy that is why they have a feature to ask the USPS to calculate costs. I always posted in my sales the most product for the shipping. On gems and precious metals I did ask that they insure the item so that in the event the Post Office chewed up their articles, they could get their money back through the insurance company. In some cases it is better to im the seller Droobie to ask a question. So I would leave feedback to a buyer positive even if they had less than stellar feedback to avoid the negatives. But if I encountered a problem with them such as late payments, a hassle or downright lies, I blocked them and then turned them over to the Postal Insector for fraud if they cheated me. Because items are shipped through the mail.
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Post by dr00bie on Feb 26, 2008 8:53:21 GMT -5
Keith,
I would have no problem paying $150 to ship a heavy highbanker across the country, but to pay $12 to ship 1.5 oz of corundum? It was my fault, I shouldn't have dealt with the dealer, and I have learned my lesson. But I still believe that once the buyers duty is done, then the seller should provide feedback.
Drew
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Post by dixieeuhedrals on Feb 26, 2008 9:10:23 GMT -5
Drew , Once the buyers duty is done by sending payment , the transaction may not be over . The buyer may make further demands . Once the buyer has recieved the item and has indicated it is satisfactory by leaving feedback , then the transaction is over . Buyers on ebay dont see it this way because they dont have to deal with the hassles . They dont risk MONEY like the sellers do . I get this ( buyers wanting feedback left first ) from time to time . I always tell them that I am blocking them from future purchases with me ...................and then I block them .
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Post by pcktfullofokenite on Feb 26, 2008 15:35:06 GMT -5
You have to really look closely at the shipping costs. Some of these sellers offer items at a low price but then when you open the link to the item you find out that the shipping cost is extremely high. I have messed on shipping cost myself before and don't have a scale at home. I recently sold a PC that I misjudged the shipping cost on by $12.00(lost), it happens. I just laughed it off, I got that PC free anyway.
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Post by sapphiregirl on Feb 29, 2008 18:18:30 GMT -5
I definetly block bad buyers and I do agree that it is the sellers that make the money for Ebay. But you have to know that the sellers can and do win cases in courts. I see them all the time especially when a deal has gone sour. You can complain to the Postal Inspectors, FTC and appropiate taxation departments.
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Post by saskrock on Mar 4, 2008 16:16:10 GMT -5
I'm actually in favor of the changes ebay is making. Back when I first started using ebay I bought a item, but when I received it the item had insufficient postage on it. I ended up having to pay the post office more for shipping to get my item. When I contacted the seller he told me too bad and that if I gave a negative rating he would give me one also as he did not give a rating when I paid (as most Ebay sellers in my experience also do not do). Well with his 30000 items sold one negative means very little, with my 4 items bought it means a whole lot more. I think that is the reason for the change. Sellers are still protected under the new rules because if something is not paid for it should not be sent. Then ebays non payment procedure kicks in. But a buyer will no longer feel intimidated to leave a honest negative if deserved.
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Post by pcktfullofokenite on Mar 4, 2008 16:59:56 GMT -5
Well, I know there are people who use ebay that abuse the rules and use tactics like you describe saskrock. I sell things every once in a while on Ebay but have never conducted myself like that and I'm sure the majority of sellers are good. It's another case of a few people spoiling it for everyone. I don't like the new rules because the way I read them buyers can abuse their priviliges more easily and it makes it harder to for sellers to correct the problems. I only sell electronics and DVD's on Ebay anymore, I seem to have more problems trying to sell mineral specimens and artifacts than anything.
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Post by dixieeuhedrals on Mar 4, 2008 18:26:44 GMT -5
Just because a buyer "has paid " really means very little if it was by credit card or paypal . A buyer can take the money back about as quick as it was sent ! I lose $100 t0 $300 per month from overseas buyers this way . They pay for the item and I send it . Maybe it gets there in a week or two . maybe it doesnt . Say it gets hung up in customs or just gets sent in a loop thru the postal system. If the customer files a charge back , in a few days they get the money . Even though the tracking number shows the package was sent and still in transit --interpreted as "lost" -- the buyer gets their money back at the sellers expense . It happens often and is not fair . Now I cant even reference this in feedback . You can bet that quite a few people that buy from overseas hope a and pray that their item is delayed 14 days so that they can get "FREE" stuff at the sellers expense. The fact that the buyer didnt get insurance does NOT matter to the credit card company. Anyone can quite easily rip sellers off this way . There are people on ebay that regularly try to extort sellers . It is easy to do . Just pick a person that has been on ebay for 5 years and has 100 per cent positive feedback . They are an easy mark . Just send them a sly email or two and they will give you a partial refund ! The sellers with a few negatives are the ones that dont stand for such BS . Just do your shopping with the 100 per centers and you can easily get your items half-price , all the time .
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Post by saskrock on Mar 5, 2008 3:17:01 GMT -5
I have only sold 1 item on ebay(pyrite nodules), and had no problem. So I'm not sure what happens then Dixie? Does ebay just hang the seller out to dry? Or does their non payment thing do anything at that point? I would think if you have a tracking number proving the buyer got the item, at that point Ebay should be requiring the buyer to immediately put the payment back or be banned or face theft charges. That obviously isn't happening though or there wouldn't be the concern. It kind of sounds like ebay is trying fix a buyers problem while ignoring a problem with their non payment system for the sellers.
Just thought I should add this in. I just went and read what the petition says, and I think this petition is for the more detailed rating thing that came in several months ago, not the sellers can't leave negatives that ebay is now proposing. I'm no lawyer so maybe I'm out to lunch but thats what I read.
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