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Post by gsellis on Aug 31, 2010 20:52:09 GMT -5
Those pendants are cool. I found a couple at Ruby City in Franklin and am going to use them myself for Cowee stuff.
Tracey, did you find the little crystals surface collecting or hammering?
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Post by arappaho on Aug 31, 2010 21:23:37 GMT -5
You've got a good eye, and it looks like you had a great day at the Tree! Cool idea for the pendant. Joe
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Post by tracey on Sept 1, 2010 14:09:59 GMT -5
Thanks, glad you guys like the pendant, hadn't seen anything like that posted here and was hoping I hadn't done something bad to the little lovelies. But some of those are such tiny chips and the glass tube actually magnifies them a bit. I put in some clear butcher block oil that my dad suggested, since it has anti-microbial properties. George, I did the best when I joined the group taking advantage of Ray's water pump. And I used a very fine mesh kitchen sieve so I bet I was catching things other folks up hill from me missed using larger mesh.
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Post by rayjeri on Sept 1, 2010 18:08:14 GMT -5
Tracey, I am glad to see that you found some nice emeralds at Crabtree. I bring my pump so people can find more emerald. I found some good stones in matrix my self. The best crystal I saw was found by my son. A 1.5 carat crystal. It was clear. This was his first trip to the tree. I will try to post a picture of it soon.
Ray
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Post by tracey on Sept 2, 2010 10:10:54 GMT -5
Ray, I would love to see that 1.5 carat crystal!
BTW, I'm the gal that loaned ya the screw driver, really glad I had that with me, thanks for bringing the pump.
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Post by rayjeri on Sept 2, 2010 15:49:41 GMT -5
Here is the picture of the emerald that my son found on his first trip to the Tree. Ray
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Post by writerman2255 on Sept 4, 2010 13:52:06 GMT -5
Very nice! It looks to be classic Tree Green! Love it! Thanks for sharing.
Love and Light, Tom.
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Post by lee on Sept 14, 2010 21:33:24 GMT -5
As can be seen in our field trip announcement section, we have a Crabtree dig scheduled for September 25, 2010. I hope we can have a good turnout for this dig and we can find a lot of good material. There should be a lot more interest in emerald collecting since Terry Ledford announced his large cut crystal. I look forward to seeing our MAGMA friends at this dig.
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Post by writerman2255 on Sept 16, 2010 9:39:32 GMT -5
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Post by gsellis on Sept 16, 2010 12:44:48 GMT -5
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carri
Junior Member
Posts: 3
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Post by carri on Sept 26, 2010 9:00:04 GMT -5
Is this near Wild Acres?
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Post by writerman2255 on Sept 29, 2010 13:08:42 GMT -5
Carri: I don't know where wild acres is, but The Crabtree and the directions are all on the Magma Site. It's in Spruce Pine, NC. Also, I was on the Net and saw this gorgeous emerald that went from deep green on one end, to pure aqua on the other, in the same crystal! Well, Afghanistan ain't got nothing on The Tree! Here's a picture of an inch and three quarter long crystal I found yesterday, with golden beryl on one end, going into emerald on the other. I have better crystals, more clear, but not as big from The Tree, doing the same "double crystal" thing. Haven't seen any going into aqua yet, but why not? Love and Light, Tom.
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Post by ncbbqnut on Sept 29, 2010 15:42:59 GMT -5
Tom, That's a great shot of the zoned beryl from the Tree. I have seen several specimens that grade from emerald to common beryl to yellow beryl, but never one that went from emerald to aqua. Here are two photos of a specimen I collected at the Tree in 1964. The crystal is nearly 1 inch long by 0.5 inch wide. The emerald portion is much greener in person than the photos indicate. Keep posting your Tree finds, I enjoy seeing specimens from there. Carri, Yes, the Big Crabtree Emerald Mine is very close to Wild Acres. Look at the maps suggested by Tom, and you can get there from Little Switzerland in no time at all. Peace, Dennis
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Post by writerman2255 on Sept 29, 2010 21:03:59 GMT -5
Thanks, Dennis. Great pics. The Tree has more surprises for us, I am certain. Love and Light, Tom.
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Post by Barrett on Oct 16, 2010 16:43:13 GMT -5
Chances are your zoned beryl from green to yellow or aqua is not emerald but just green beryl. Green beryl colored by Fe+2 and Fe+3 is very common and when the crystal is growing it's going to stick with it's molecular orbital transition rather than switch to crystal field transition. It's it's yellow beryl or aqua on one end then it's just green beryl on the other end and not emerald. Thats why you never see a half aquamarine/half emerald gemstone(bi-color) or a half heliodore/half emerald gemstone. Doesn't work that way. So the specimens posted on the last page which taper from one color to the other are just plain old green beryl(on the green end) and not emerald. Pretty much any for sure emeralds from the crabtree are going to be near the exocontacts of the chlorite schist and biotite. Thats why every decent or good specimen from the crabtree which is on matrix is near some biotite(to a lesser extent the schist)..thats where the chromium comes from. Compositional data shows at the crabtree pegmatite the yellow beryl formed first then the green beryl followed by emerald since it needed that chromium from the schist(Tappen 1998)
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Post by writerman2255 on Oct 16, 2010 20:10:13 GMT -5
Thanks for the info! But I'm going to trust my eyes. The golden beryl that does go from gold to deep emerald green, I would say is emerald for certain! That piece that I mentioned that went from blue aqua to emerald, was so striking, that's what made me think that some of the pieces we are going to find in the future at The Tree are going to be of the same nature. It was from Colombia and I'd never seen anything like it. Probably from what I've seen at The Tree, what we will find will be mostly golden beryl to emerald. And yes, there are some golden beryl to green beryl pieces, I have quite a few of those. But you cannot mistake true emerald color, it's very different from green beryl to the discerning eye. And yes, I've seen half heliodor half emerald gemstones, lots of those from the Tree! Love and Light, Tom.
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Post by Barrett on Oct 16, 2010 22:27:15 GMT -5
Could you please pont me to any picture of a faceted gemstone that is half emerald and half helidore? Your eyes really mean nothing when trying to ID any gemstone, Tom. I just explained everything you need to know which shows you are making an improper ID and perhaps making this misinformation affect others readers who would want to know the facts. Trusting my eyes is possibly the worst answer you could give when trying to ID something(no offense). I think where you are making the mistake is the saturation of color..anything you see, Tom, that is light green you will automatically call green beryl where as anything you see that is deep green you will automatically assume is emerald regardless of Cr and V content. You said "The golden beryl that does go from gold to deep emerald green, I would say is emerald for certain!" But what means..did you use your chelsea filter to determine this or since it's green you automattically assume it is? Did you know Fe+2 and Fe+3 impart the same color as chromium and vanadium in beryl? "That piece that I mentioned that went from blue aqua to emerald, was so striking, that's what made me think that some of the pieces we are going to find in the future at The Tree are going to be of the same nature. It was from Colombia and I'd never seen anything like it." Can you post a picture of it or any picture for that matter that is half aquamarine and half emerald(Cr and V bearing)? Now I have seen on a few occasions an aquamarine that was blue on one end and greener on the other but all was colored by Iron. What you must understand is not all emeralds are "emerald green" like you insinuated. The fact that an Emerald is light in color does not mean that it is a Green Beryl, it may be called light color or washed out color Emerald. Same thing with green beryl. Just because the green is really dark does not mean it's an emerald as it must have Cr or V. I have seen my fair share of deep green beryls which were non-Chromium and vanadium bearing(Chromium for the crabtree). The discerning eye can tell you nothing when the difference between a green beryl and an emerald is on the molecular level. The Assunção pegmatite produced super intense green beryls that would rival most emeralds the world over but guess what?? They were not colored by chromium or vanadium so they were not emeralds. The crystals grew to several meters in length(6+ feet). Here is an example: Now if i trusted my eyes or i used a discerning eye and I found both stones below in a emerald type pegmatite with schist(contact zone) I would ASSUME they were emeralds but both just happen to be green beryls and not emeralds Now this piece. Well by the looks of it seems to be a green beryl and a crappy one at that. This came from the crabtree mine in Spruce pine busted out of hardrock. This is actually an emerald. The spectragraph done for this piece I have posted below and the coloring chromophore is chromium so this is an emerald abeit a poor colored one. If I would have used you way of thinking it would have been named a green beryl by your eye. This is the actual spectrgraph done at the university of north alabama for this emerald Now to be fair 30 years ago your way of thinking would have been accepted as any deep green beryl was and emerald and any light green beryl was "green beryl". It is not that way today. Today emerald is determined by the coloring chromophore being either Cr or V. Green beryl as lack of Cr or V, colored by Iron(Fe). Your half yellow(heliodore is Fe+3(irridation) is a molecular orbital transition is not going to switch half way to a crystal field transition with Cr+3 to make emerald(Nassau 1983), it's going to styay with it's molecular orbital transition and continue using Fe+2,Fe+3 and be green beryl regardless of whether you see "emerald" green or not. I hope I wasn't to harsh, Tom, I just don't want misinformation or the wrong idea to be posted for others who may want the facts. I have gone back probably 12 pages and think you have some wonderful emeralds from the "tree" and i love your incorporation of rough into your jewelry. it's fantastic work!
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Post by writerman2255 on Oct 17, 2010 5:44:47 GMT -5
Ha! You are so right! But since the University rated that piece as an emerald, just try and sell it as one! I don't think the big haired lady down the street would pay for that ring! Even if you showed her the spectograph statistics!
Love and Light, Tom.
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Post by Ryan on Oct 18, 2010 1:40:03 GMT -5
Rick J. mentioned an awesome piece a page back. 20 some beryls on a fist sized rock? Anyone track down a picture of that bad boy yet?
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Post by scott on Oct 18, 2010 7:05:13 GMT -5
Williamb,
Thank you for your very informative post. It's great to have someone on here that knows their stuff especially when it comes to beryl. I agree with you 100% about wanting to distinguish the difference between green beryl and emerald. If everybody thought it was okay to call green beryl emerald then it would make emeralds way too common and much less rare. Emeralds are not common and the fact that they are rare helps make them highly sought after and valuable.
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Post by writerman2255 on Oct 18, 2010 21:09:43 GMT -5
BTW, here's the aqua emerald specimen in the same stone. These guys are professionals, so I assume they know what they're talking about! www.kristalle.com/news-story.php?id=59Love and Light, Tom.
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Post by Barrett on Oct 18, 2010 21:45:37 GMT -5
If you notice half the crystal is colorless and half is a blue-green color. True chromium might giving the green color to the colored portion and iron is giving the blue color to the colored portion. It's not a half colored emerald then half aquamarine. it's an aquamarine which happens to have chromium atoms in it. many aquamarines have chromium in them. I had some nat. aqua from Northern areas, pakistan which showed pink under chelsea. Madagascar produces aquamarine with chromium in them. Even the namibian aquas have trace amount of chromium in them. Even though all those examples had chromium in them the coloring chromophore was iron..same as that link you posted. What you won't get is a bi-color half chromium chromophore colored beryl and a half iron chromophore colored aqua. It's like you said , Tom..the lady down the street won't call the crappy light green an emerald..she just won't. Thats how it used to be..dark vibrant green regardless of chemical composition was an emerald..light green regardless of coloring chromophore was a green beryl. leave it up to science to have to put things in proper order. Now regardless of color saturation if it's colored by chromium(V) it's an emerald anything else just a green beryl
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Post by Barrett on Oct 19, 2010 0:09:36 GMT -5
Tom, please keep posting pics of your emeralds. I have gone back many many pages now and enjoy looking at them. You have some great finds!
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Post by lee on Oct 19, 2010 1:39:23 GMT -5
I am confused after all of this technical talk about emeralds. Are the clear green stones found at the Crabtree emeralds or some other green stone? Can you tell by simply looking at the stone or must you send it to a laboratory?
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Post by Barrett on Oct 19, 2010 2:22:15 GMT -5
What do you mean by "clear green"? You mean transparent(clear) green stones? If you are at an emerald mine(crabtree) and you find a rich green stone then it will be an emerald 99% of the time. If you are at another mine..say the Hogg mine and you find a decent green stone you know it's not an emerald(I have seen some pretty dark green opaque beryls from the Hogg mine) since emeralds/chromium is not found there.
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Post by Ryan on Oct 19, 2010 3:36:56 GMT -5
From what I gather, William, you are simply trying to state that although a beryl can be the same depth of color, hue of green, and clarity, two otherwise identical stones will be identified as gemmy common green beryl -OR- actual precious emerald depending on the impurity giving the color (is that what you call the chromophore?), be it Chromium or Vanadium (legit emerald beryl) , or Fe2+ or Fe3+ (green common beryl), correct? Since I believe that is indeed what you're trying to say, Id like to ask you, if I have a nice piece of blue beryl from the Ray mine, is there a similar chemical impurity variable that differentiates aquamarine from blue beryl or are they one in the same (iron as Fe3+?) and the difference is merely a matter of quality? I guess I understand the emerald dependent variable as Vanadium and Chromium are somewhat rarer than an Iron isotope. I would expect the rarer of two or three elements to be indicators of a rare gemstone. I suppose if every green beryl that was pretty was an emerald, then emeralds would be worthless. None of this really concerns me though, I keep any scrap of beryl I find. Even the crappy ones they all are welcome to a nice home on one of my shelves.
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Post by Barrett on Oct 19, 2010 6:08:23 GMT -5
You nailed everything correct, Ryan. Well done. Normally the term aquamarine is typically used for gemmy blue beryl and blue beryl for opaque but it's not set in stone(no pun intended). Both colored by iron so both are the same thing. You see the thing is beryl crystals always form near the core margin of a complex pegmatite usually up near the quartz core or just a little ways out. You will never find those type beryls at the contact zone. They are always one of the last things to form when a pegmatite is cooling. The exception to the rule is emeralds. They always form on the edges of pegmatites at the contact zone. (strictly pegmatites and not hydrothermal emeralds which are totally different) Reason being is they get there chromium from the country rock. There is no chromium in the core of the pegmatite where all the other beryl forms only near the edges which in the case of the crabtree is the chlorite schist. It's really a fluke of nature..the beryllium wants to be in the center of the pegmatite and the chromium on the outside not even in the pegmatite and to have enough of each to form an emerald is amazing ...that it can even happen. Thats why emeralds are so rare. A good example, some of you may know, is the Hogg mine where I have been a few times. In the picture below which I found on a different site you can see the contact zone between the pegmatite and the country rock(which is decomposed into dirt). If the conditions were right and the country rock had chromium in it there is a small chance it would have emeralds and the emeralds would be where I have circled but we know that is not the case at the Hogg mine(remember this is just an example to show pegmatites and emerald formation). Now I am sure those who have been have seen the high wall there. You can see the pegmatite goes up like 30-35 feet. All the beryl is found 30 feet away from the contact zone near the quartz core. No beryl is found anywhere near edge or contact zone with the outside rock(dirt). With an emerald mine/pegmatite it's totally different. You still have all the beryl crystals near the core of it but for some odd reason you have enough at the edges to be able to mix with chromium to form emeralds. Every pegmatite i have seen or studied has the beryl near the core. Never ever will you find it near the edges, except at an emerald deposit. It's almost like the chromium atoms latch onto the beryllium atoms and say "hold on a sec don't go inside stay out here with me". Really a fluke of natuire like I said. Now my first post on this thread was in regards to the beryls on the preceding page(57). Tom's crystal which he said "with golden beryl on one end, going into emerald on the other." It doesn't look like a golden beryl to me, it looks more like a yellowish-green or a very washed out sickly green going into a richer better colored green. Emeralds can and will be yellowish green or a pale sickly green. You can see the black biotite in the same frame as another clue.. That most likely is an emerald. It's the beryl that ncbbqnut posted. Thats common beryl colored by iron. Not bi-color or yellow tapering to emerald.
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Post by Barrett on Oct 19, 2010 6:11:07 GMT -5
The crabtree is a great place..frankly one of the best in the country. It's the only REAL public emerald mine there is. Thats amazing. There are not that many emerald mines in the entire world let alone the US so the privilege to be able to dig at one is outstanding.
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Post by Ryan on Oct 21, 2010 3:08:15 GMT -5
Williamb, That map is awesome Thank heavens for MS Paint. Ive never heard of Hydrothermal Emerald. Is that where the Vanadium comes into play? It is also really interesting how you describe the "emerald paradox". There must be some affinity possesed by one of those molecules to the other that causes that. (Digging around for my periodic table) I wonder if they form a really stable bond at the molecular level that prevent the proto-emeralds in the beryl forming "broth" from reacting normally to the forces within the forming peg. Earth is amazing.
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Post by writerman2255 on Oct 21, 2010 15:21:05 GMT -5
With four ex-wives and a teenage daughter, God forbid I ever get the last word in here or anywhere else for that matter! I never expect that anymore! Be that as it may, Golden beryl and emerald do grow in the same stone, and in the same crystal. The pictures I have here are of a six sided beryl crystal that was cut and polished, and I know it has tourmaline inclusions, but when I started the faces were crystal faces, six sided, and obviously golden, and very clear, with inclusions. That there are emerald crystals inside of it, well just ask Mother Nature why that happened. The other is a piece with obvious emerald green to it, and the portion that fell off also displayed, emerald and golden beryl in the same crystal. And these are just two that I have found. The golden beryl is much more golden in rock, as is the emerald more green that the pics show. Enjoy! Love and Light, Tom.
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