I cut it.

[scott]

Apr 22, 2011 8:05:38 GMT -5 @ncmineralman said:

Schorl also comes in a very dark green variety, so even that comparison does not necessarily work. In fact, one geologist was arguing with Curtis Allen about the Ray Mine that his elbaite was in fact schorl. It was not until the test results were back that it was determined it was elbaite. I believe both types are at the Ray, the dark green schorl and the lighter green elbaite.

My example of schorl was an analogy that worked to convey its meaning. Rick, to your technicality monkey wrench -- Ha ha. Lets change my analogy to amethyst -- when someone says amethyst I envision the purple variety of quartz. Don't bring up green or any other color amethyst either ;D

[stevebarr]

"Amen!" to that.

[Ryan]

Green Amethyst??? I LOVE that stuff! Thanks again to Steve B for selling all that green ammy to me at the Crabtree dig at such a great price!! I found a few emeralds and they were small so Steve said hed take my crappy little emeralds and $20 in trade for his big shiney pieces of green amethyst! What a guy!! I feel like I made out on the deal! A real tribute to what a stellar human being he is! He also offered me some yellow ruby and a brown aquamarine but I ran out of money! Oh well, That Steve,..Always looking out for us less experienced guys! ;D LOL!!

On a serious note however, the heck with schorl then... bad example. I was simply saying how Scott makes a good point. I tend to prefer effective descriptors and accurate definitions to convey as much info as possible in one word. That way, when we all talk shop, we can form the most accurate images in our heads about what the other person is describing.

I have some Geodes in my collection. They are geodes in the strictest sense. But I also have some diamond hill vuggy druse rocks that I wouldnt trade for anything. I love them, theyre awesome, but they are so different from my "classic" geodes that they simply and certainly cannot have the same name. Two totally different rocks. Just my opinion. It helps me learn if people are as precise and accurate as possible with the geological terms. Otherwise, we might as well dispose of terms like: yorkies, pit bulls, black labs, and saint bernards and just throw all those animals in the same box labeled "dogs".

[stevebarr]

Ryan - If you like "Green Amethyst"', I've got a bunch of stuff for you! How about some North Carolina rubies I ordered from Burma? Or diamonds from Arkansas that were dug up in Africa? Oh yeh, I also have some really nice amethyst from the southeast that will look great on your shelf as soon as the purple Magic Marker dries. And, I've got some "solid geodes" that look amazingly like regular rocks, only these geodes aren't hollow, which is what makes them really special. Then, there's those "flat geodes" that are just like regular geodes, only smoother. They don't roll off your shelf like those pesky round ones do.

Order them now. They're sure to sell out fast!

[lauriesrocks]

One of the best places to see the mislabeled "fakes" is Gem Mountain on Hwy. 226 just outside of Spruce Pine. Although I haven't been in there in three or four years, they had an amazing variety of DELIBERATELY mislabeled specimens. When confronted with the obvious charlatanism, they became defensive and claimed that they actually found the pieces themselves. I called them Damn liars and was of course asked to leave. They had hundreds of huge emeralds in matrix from brazil, of course all were labeled as from the Crabtree mine. The most amazing was the rubellite tourmaline pieces from the Stewart Mine in California that they labeled as Thulite (!) from the Fanny Gouge Mine. Brazilian kyanite labeled as Yancey County, faked staurolite fairy crosses labeled as natural, and on and on. It's a crying shame, even criminal in my book, because many hundreds of kids get their start in mineral collecting at places like this, and they are being taught lies right from the get go. Almost as bad as the "azeztulite"! Words and labels ARE important. I make mistakes all the time, and I truly like to be corrected when I do, but some of the commercial folks out there don't give a damn about the truth. Don't let them get away with it! When you see these fakes, call them out on it. They certainly will not change if nobody says anything. My two cents.

[rayjeri]

Laurie: Bravo (clap'clap'clap) bravo. Ditto.
Ray

[kap]

Amen!

[Ryan]

Hell yeah Laurie.
Id rather get corrected and look dumb for two seconds than keep being wrong my whole life and never learn anything correctly. When I was starting out, I went in there (Gem Mtn.)and they tried to sell me on one of those "NC Emerald" pieces from Brazil. Guy said he found it near the shop. I smelled bull-poopie and moved on. Now I know Brazilian when I see it, but at the time, I almost bought it. I wanted to go find the source. I feel silly now but at the time, I was imagining all of Mitchell Co. being full of such specimins just waiting to be dug up.

And Steve:

"I've got some "solid geodes" that look amazingly like regular rocks, only these geodes aren't hollow, which is what makes them really special."

Hilarious... ;D

[colorshapetexture]

Here it is.
I think it is a vug fore sure.
You could call it a cathedral.
But I don't think you can call it a geode.

[Dicky the Rockhunter]

when solid doesnt it then become a thunderegg?

Dicky

[colorshapetexture]

Dickey I was out in Oregon a few years back. I heard out there that the term thunder eggs came from the early Americans. Thru some story about the great thunder mountain god throwing them. Or something like that. Honest I didn't make it up. lol
Later Jim

[arappaho]

Thanks for the follow through and pics, Jim.
Where's the big triple-terminated amethyst crystal that was
supposed in the middle of that thing?
Oh well, good job!
Joe

[romare]

'Almost as bad as the "azeztulite"!' sez Laurie...

Now "azeztulite" I am an authority on... how much you want? Actual crystals or just some of the big magical hunks? We often cast it aside when it when the specialness is lost on us poor ignorant miners...

My take on the actual discussion here is thus: There is a specificity of language that allows the world to be gradually better known. Words are tricky (like Coyote). In spite of that, words have become largely how we think, how our concepts are formed. In fact, there is more evidence than ever that language is so different from culture to culture that our ability to form thoughts about time, space, and the much trickier concepts of good and bad and such rely to a great degree on the constructs framed by our specific language. That being said, I, unlike some of my more learned friends, believe that language is malleable and evolving constantly. Mutating even, if there is a distinction.

However, within the "hard sciences" descriptors are used to define boundaries of absolutes or near absolutes. A geode may be any hollow lined cavity with crystal formation, but not to a geologist. "Azeztulite" might be any quartz from a handful of locations that is deemed to have scientifically unmeasurable qualities, but it is almost certainly just a marketing term dreamed up by one person trying to increase his sales of otherwise low-grade material by preying on ignorance and superstition.

I myself have used the term geode when referring to some of the nifty, almost fully enclosed vugs we have found at DH, but I would not do so when labeling the material for sale or trade.

[Ryan]

Hoo hoo hoo hee hee hee hahahahaha! I just googled "azeztulite"... These people are kooky! ha! I feel so bad for the New Age people who actually buy this baloney! I have chipped many a hunk of "azeztulite" off of specimins to reveal the better mineral in the center. Little did I know, my spoils and chaff could be sold as valuable Metaphysical healing stones! Well DANG! I ought to go into business then!!

[auplater]

hehehe... Ryan, I have some "exlaxite" that, contrary to the "removes energy blockages" of "azeztulite", is a powerful remover of other kinds of blockages.... ;D ;D

geez... at least they could of picked a dumb name that's easier to pronounce, eh? Like maybe crapolite, or ripoffite, etc...

John L.