Prospecting for Prospectors

[Ryan]

Hi y'all,

I was hoping I could attract some folks here to discuss prospecting they have done. I am interested in resources used, methods, schools of thought, and other advanced techniques.

Keyword: advanced. I know about USGS maps, google earth, and relentless picking up of random rocks.

If anyone would like to share some "secrets" or other techniques like: rock associations, mineral associations, geologic tell-tale signs of something or other. I dont know. Thats why I am here. To see what the pros do.

I know for example, there are USGS maps with old claims and mines on them. HOW do you use that information to accurately assess the potential there. Copper mine = malachite? Feldspar Mine = beryl potential? I dunno, just wondering. I hear you all talk of batholiths, alluvial vs. lode deposit, dunite bodies on ultramaffic formations, hydrothermal veins, granite plutons and felsic intrusions. What does that tell you? What do those various geologic entities represent as far as collecting ops?

I am big on coordinating data to assess the possibility of mineral "belts". I then find the closest highway to my "line" I draw on my map, I drive it, and the pick up roadcut samples and creek pickins. Sometimes, neat patterns emerge. Sometimes I find really gemmy garnets in shist but no shist? Did it come from upstream? I guess so. Sometimes I find stuff I cannot ID in a rock type Ive never seen before (coming soon to ID forum, weird black chert looking stuff from WV in grey superhard homogenous matrix), etc...

I am also very interested in mineral prospecting stories. Anyone ever find something that "shouldn't" be there? Or really hit "paydirt" somewhere that no one else ever knew about? Anyone ever go looking for quartz and find beryl? Or prospect gold and find corundum? Im not looking for folks to discolse the local, but hearing the story could be fun.

I hope this sounds interesting to some of you. I have been looking in construction lots on Sundays, and have walked trails into the middle of nowhere to find a lot of nothing. Just wondering what you all do. Please share your best techniques, please tell your best story, or please impart some prospecting knowlege on this thread to enhance the abilities of anyone interested in prospecting. THANKS IN ADVANCE!!! ;D ;D

Ryan

[hydrogeologist]

I'll be the first to chime in.

So, USGS maps are a start, but I recommend augmenting them by researching old state publications, strategic mineral deposit reports, and anything else you can get your hands on. And keep in mind: USGS coordinates are notoriously wrong. I have a friend that walked around an area for 6 months before he found the old quarry he was looking for because the USGS coordinates were off by a mile.

And one thing I can't stress enough is you've got to research, research, research. You've got to get out and hit the pavement hard because if this hobby was easy everybody would be doing it. And don't be afraid to swab local landowners down if you think you're onto something and want to walk their corn fields or creeks. The worst they can say is "No. You can't have access to my land."

Lawrence

[eechler]

I look for USGS State mineralogy locality publications that are no longer available. When I find what I want I check Amazon, eBay, and Abe Books. Another great source is Mindat, and search engines in general.

[Ryan]

Mindat.org is a pretty nice resource. I find it most valuable for ID sake. A lot of the locales listed there are ambiguous (probably on purpose) and some list zero minerals and are just "reports". I am trying to save money on gas and tires. Searching every mindat "reported locale" with no real solid evidence of a deposit or status of the land accessability would be extremely wasteful and inefficient in my humble opinion.

Lawrence, those are great stories. Id like to hear more about that kind of stuff. Is the general idea to find old quarries and known deposits that have just faded away with the passage of time? Is there any value to prospecting mountain trails in the hope of finding a previously un-encountered deposit? I know the Thunder-Bay Ammy of Ontario was discovered quite accidentally in just the last 50-60 years by a crew laying down a new road to a Forest Service fire tower. How cool would that be!?

Of all the known locals, there almost HAS to be a few great deposits that are hidden and have yet to be discovered. Heck, In Vietnam, they've just discovered caves you could park an aircraft carrier in! As much as we like our Google Earth, our GPS sattilites and perceived command over our planet, we are small little strandy beings and there is no way (in my opinion) that we've even scraped the surface. Look at Scott from Rockhoundlounge! He discovers quartz deposits all over the place! Thanks for responding guys, I am still very curious about rock and mineral associations and belts and bands of minerals. There are intrusions all along the Appalacians. There have got to be more deposits to be discovered!

Who else has some great information or great stories!?

[hydrogeologist]

PM sent!

[stevebarr]

Ryan – You already possess one of the most powerful tools you need when you are “prospecting”. You’ve already admitted to it. You TALK to people.

When I’m searching for locations that might be able to accommodate the turnout one of our club’s fieldtrips can generate, I go to towns or counties where I know some sort of mineral deposits already exist. Then, I talk to people. Usually, those who are obviously locals. The guy pumping gas next to you, the lady behind the checkout counter, folks out in their yard. I always try to be polite, and if they don’t want to be bothered, I leave.

But, I’ll ask anyone I meet if they know of property where the owner might allow me (or the club) to dig. I once encountered a group of older folks hanging around a local store, just chatting. I asked about some of the old mines in the area. I left with the name, address and phone number of a fellow who they said owned land where I might be able to collect.

Five minutes later, after a brief introduction, that guy took me straight to the old mine and collected with me, pointing out certain things that I might not have figured out myself. By the time I left, he had invited me to return.

Unfortunately, access and size of the location wouldn’t accomodate a club fieldtrip. (There was only enough room for one car to park at a time!) So, gather information. Then head out and talk to people. C’mon….I know you can do it!

[Ryan]

I aint skeered of talkin Steve! Thats for sure! I appreciate your input and understand how that would be very helpful.

One thing I need to become more educated about is actually being out in the field. Once Im there, yknow? Things to look for, rocks that can imply certain mineralogy is present, layers of this indicate that and what contains what, if you cacth my drift.

I guess I just need to spend another $30,000 at the U of Pitt and get a Geology degree now. Marketing....what the hell was i thinking...

Anyways, I know a lot of reaaaally knowlegable people frequent this site. Any tips yall might wanna lay down would be greatly appreciated! Thanks to Steve, Lawrence and eechler so far for the great input!

UPDATE: By the way! Mickey just posted this today about the caves in Vietnam I just mentioned! Weird coincidence!
dirtyrockhounds.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=rocks&action=display&thread=8219

[stevebarr]

Um....why spend $30,000 on another degree? You could sure do a lot of "prospecting" with that kind of cash, and get a lot of "hands on" experience out in the field. Of course, it is pretty hard to get a government loan for "rockhounding".

[Barrett]

Yea..seems like 80% of the folks I know have degrees in something 1) that has nothing to do with their career or 2) has nothing to do with their passion. Ask any old-timer or senior who has spent a lifetime working and they will tell you it's much better to do something you truly love and have a deep passion for rather than work the job that is not but maybe pays more. The $30,000 geology job(in our case rocks=geology=our passion) wiill/would be so much better than the..say..being $70,0000 a year accountant. Most folks like their jobs because they are comfortable with it. Big difference between being comfortable with your job and having fun at your job. Imagine working for a wildcat company or one like Rio Tinto and searching for oil or gold or diamond deposits. The backwoods places and hardships who have to edure in the field but it would be so adverturous and fullfilling! Someone like Vincent Pardieu who works for GIA Thailand..he gets to travel to all the old and new gem deposits the world over and collect samples. I would take that for $30,000(or Rio Tinto..heck $70,000++ a year) a year over a $130,000 a year job sitting in an office all day long...you can bet on that. I chose marketing when I went to college as well..boy if I could turn back the clock it would be geology all the way, baby.

As for techniques...the number 1 best is exactly what Steve Barr said...talk to the locals. Best resource there is(especially if they are old and gray ). Rodney relayed a story about Jackson Crossroads and the Tiffany amethyst mine nearby. To date I know of no one who has dug there or even found out where it's at. There is an old amethyst mine that Tiffany's mined back in the 30's somewhere around JXR. Well he spoke to a lady who was in her 80's, give or take, who used to collect there in the dump piles when she was a kid back in the 30's(maybe 40's). She told him all about it. She couldn't quite remember the exact location but she said if she was driven around there she would remember. Well, that was when Rodney was minig JXR and all over the country doing gem shows and mining other places and he didn't have time. He had asked at least 2 other people to swing by and pick her up sometime as she said she would be happy to show them and for the company but they never did and she passed away in due time leaving the location unknown for now. I am sure there are other old timers who know. It doesn't take a USGS map, mindat, or google earth to find a place it just takes a handshake and a smile. I am sure there are a few old timers left who know the location and would be happy to tell some stories and show you or tell you where it's at. I find it much more pleasing than sitting in the chamber of commerce or the county recorders office pouring over old books and county land records.

Rodney, Rick, Laurie, Mark Randall, Byan, Lawrence, Scott, arrapaho, and Steve Barr(and a few others on here) all put in the leg work and get out there and talk to folks and poke around and thats how they all have such success at mining, collecting, or opening up new sites. 90% of all the info these guys get is not from maps or coordinates, it's from talking to folks(and in joe and Scotts case stopping by any cleared area or contruction site). The very first time I ever went to go collect rocks...the first time I ever even got rocks in my head ...the very first time ever....was seeing the Travel Channel Episode on JXR. Saw it was near "Washington, GA" as the host said. My pops and I decided to go check it out. Being the idiot I am and the biggest computer noob at the time I didn't do an internet search before we left. I figured..."Hey it was on TV...Washington is a small town...it will be easy to find". Drive 1 1/2 hours..get there. I go to that Shell station in town and ask the locals that worked there. Nope never heard of it. Stood in that busy gas station for 20 minutes asking everyone that came in(like 13-15 people) and not one person had heard of Jackson Crossroads amethyst mine. Finally a teenager came in and he said..." I have never heard of the amethyst mine but I know where Jackson Crossroads is" .... "go back the way you came past the airfield and make a right then so on and so forth" Drive out there..road comes to a dead end. Now what. I am on that road half way between John's house and the dirt road JXR(to get to jxr I would have had to make a left and go 2 miles, give or take, then make a right at the church) is on and there is a dirt road in front of me. We decide to go down the dirt road in front of us and we see some folks coming in a car. We flag them down. Nope, never heard of it. Drive on...we see 3 people coming down the dirt road on ATV's. Flag them down. Nope, never heard of it. Well damn. Start driving again. Now a red pickup truck.(please note..this was probably the most traffic this old dirt road had ever seen..LOL). Flag this guy down. "Yea, I know where it's at..it's down this way..make a right..th......wait let me just show you..follow me" Took us straight there. Talked with us for a few minutes at the gate and was happy to have helped. Go figure it was closed and the gate was locked but you have to remember I was a noob at the time so makes sense. Turned around and left and drove the 1 1/2 hours back to ATL. I don't remember if I got the phone number off that old piece of cardboard that used to be on the gate or I went home and used the net but the next time we went out there were lots of folks digging and that was where I met Nancy Seaver who told me about MAGMA and Dirtyrockhounds which parlayed me into becoming a member that evening after my first ever dig mining trip.

Here is me looking for that old Tiffany amethyst mine behind the church near JXR(well one of the times I looked back there). I had heard rumors of it being back there but I have not found it and after further review and information from others I figured out it was not back that way( I have a better idea of where it's at...shhhh ). Now, I never ever trespass or prospect without permission(except constuction sites but if superintendent is there doesn't hurt to ask if not he won't care as long as you FILL in all holes or don't dig at all just surface collect) but at this church all I had to do was ask the Big Man upstairs if he was cool with me walking around in the woods behind the church. He said yea it was cool. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

[Barrett]

Do as Steve said..don't spend that $30,000 on another degree. Use it and start your own wildcat company with a few buddies on here(oh..oh..pick me.pick me) get a few investors and go prospect for kimberlite pipes up in NW Territories Canada. If we want to dream big we have to play with the big dogs. Sure you have to go up against De Beers and all their secondary companies, Rio Tinto, Dia Met, and BHP, and all the other wildcats but the pay off is huge and would be fun anyways. Just ask ole Chuck Fipke. Was as broke as a joke borrowing money from every single firend and family member and had milked them dry. He stuck with the prospecting and one day..lo and behold his daughter found those certain indicator minerals(G-10 garnet) and WHAM...now he is worth $300+ million dollars as well as his partner. All those friends and family are now multi-millionaires. All the experts the world over say there are at least 3 other undiscovered diamond deposits(commercially viable) still laying up there waiting to be discovered. If none of you have ever read the book "Diamonds: A journey into the heart of obsession" I highly recommend it(non-fiction)
www.amazon.com/Diamond-Journey-Obsession-Matthew-Hart/dp/tags-on-product/B000IOEW02

It even talks about something I have wanted to do for a long time. Mine diamonds in Brazil. They mine on river barges with suction hoses and sluices. Not a lot of start up money. Get you an old junker boat and a genny with dredge and hoses..hire a few gampineros and you are off and running. You pay the gampineros a small amount each week and let them get 20% of the finds(you own boat and machinery so 80% is good). Not only are the rivers full of diamonds but the primary deposits have never been located and they will be rich with goodies but thats a whole different story. Just some influx of cash on the rivers can make you some good money.

Another one I always wanted to do was mine for gold in the golden triangle in Victoria Australia. Not really mine but use metal detectors to find gold. There are many many folks who's only job is finding gold by using metal detectors. They make anywhere from $40,000-$100,000(these are numbers from 3-4 years ago with gold prices at what they are now those figures will be much higher) a year just going out 5 times a week and hunting for nuggets with a detector. There is so much gold in the golden triangle you have to be an idiot not to make a decent living doing it. Of course, you won't do very well the first year or so until you figure out the best places and hide-e-holes. Both of those are little secrets the others don't want you to know about. Sure the hardships plenty, the weather and bugs horrendous, but the adventure, and freedom all but make up for it...and...the payoff can be huge for such little investment.


Think about that. All you do is enjoy nature, get excercise, and find gold or diamonds. Work as much or as little as you want. Be your own boss. Thats, my friends, is the good life. Sigh

[robwhaley]

Ryan,
Here are a few more points and development of some that have been mentioned. I will describe one example to illustrate the points, although the process has been the same at Cookeville, NC, Cat Square, NC, Crabtree subdivision in Catawba Co., Ola Road, Troutman, NC, Siler City, Gray's Chapel, the Parker Mine, Eldorado, NC, Morris Mtn., NC, Ophir, NC, Wadeville, NC, Jonesville, SC, Sandy Level Church, Tuxedo, NC, and Shingletrap Mtn., to name a few where I have found excellent specimens. Shingletrap illustrates it all.
1. START AT PROVEN LOCATIONS. By proven I mean you have seen good, typical specimens from there. In the 1970s I saw great Shingletrap quartz specimens with Anatase in the collections of a few experienced local collectors; none would tell me the specific location. The late Tommy Capps knew the site and in 1980 led 50 members of the Charlotte Mineral Club on a field trip there. After 8 hours of looking, no one had found any Anatase and the largest quartz xl found was an inch long.
2. EXTEND THE SEARCH AT THE SITE, LOOKING WHERE OTHERS HAVE NOT. In subsequent trips on my own I looked in areas at the base of the dike that showed no signs they had been searched. I went scraping and sampling the soil beyond the end of the path, an area that showed no signs of disturbance. After several trips doing this, I visited after it had rained and found a few tiny quartz crystals that had been washed out. I dug the spot down about 18 inches and found a pocket about the size of a washtub filled with 3 and 4 inch xls, many with anatase, and a 5 lb cluster. That spot went on to be expanded by countless rockhounds to become the usual collecting site at Shingletrap today.
3. ONCE YOU HAVE FOUND GOOD SPECIMENS AT A SITE, NOTE THE SPECIFIC ENVIRONMENT IN WHICH THEY OCCURRED AND USE THE INFORMATION TO GUIDE YOUR FURTHER SEARCHES. After my initial find at Shingletrap, I went on to find several other pockets within a 25 foot area. I used several observations to guide my search: First, the crystallizing veins occurred in seams between productive rocks and the country rock which held few crystals. Second, the productive crystal bearing rock could be identified by the sound it made (thudding) when struck by a hammer as opposed to the ringing sound of unproductive rocks and boulders. Further, the productive rock was brilliantly milky and highly reflective rather than off-white and dull. The surrounding clay soil also gave evidence of good crystallization: the soil itself was filled with micro crystals.
4. LOOK FOR SIMILAR MINERAL ENVIRONMENTS IN THE AREA. Montgomery Co., NC has many quartz outcrops and veins, some of which are crystal bearing. I spent lots of time looking for these occurrences (often found on a hillside adjacent to a stream...just like Shingletrap). Brilliant milky quartz that thudded when hammered led to discoveries at half a dozen spots in the county.
5. USE INFORMATION ABOUT THE LOCALE FROM PEOPLE AND BOOKS. Hunters and landowners have told me about crystals they have seen from various spots. Donnie Reaves told me about a small quarry he had seen when he was looking for gold. I checked it out and found the pink hematite-included quartz site at Wadeville, which has yielded hundreds of excellent crystals. The book METALLIC MINERAL DEPOSITS OF THE CAROLINA SLATE BELT, NORTH CAROLINA has a large map showing faulting in the Uwharrie Mtns. (good crystals are often found along faults). I found crystals at an old gold prospect using this book.
6. CULTIVATE YOUR FRIENDS. The late Shorty Peeler from Cleveland Co. NC invited me on a number of successful digs in Cleveland and Catawba counties and taught me a lot about prospecting. He dug rocks for a living and initially shared information with me because I bought a number of specimens from him. Mike McDuffie from Rockingham showed me the Ophir site in Montgomery Co.; I have shown him sites as well. This past year I took Scott and Joe to a couple of my sites and they reciprocated. Networking works when you give as well as you get.
Rob Whaley

[Ryan]

Wow, thanks a million to all of you. I did not expect this thread to take off like this. Im sure others are benefiting from this info as well. Thanks, sincerely.

We need more threads like this. Maybe a geology 101 thread, certain members could monitor and teach "classes". We could become a club of high level scientists and geologists! "I studied minerology under Professor Steve Barr at MAGMA U !!!" LOL

Ill teach Marketing and Advertising 101 with a side class in web design. Everyone with a rock shop could learn how to spruce up their sites and drive traffic and visits!

MAGMA U !!! Ill write a Fight Song too

[Ryan]

The Latin says: "We Came, We Saw, We Collected a Rock!" LMAO

[mitch]

I really do need a basic understanding of Geology. I love finding pretty specimens but lack the understanding of the Geology behind what I am finding. I her people talk of pegmatites, dorite, schist, etc...but all that is greek to me. I have learned so much since I have been on here and want to thank all of you who so willingly share your knowledge. I guess what I lack in knowledge and understanding I make up with a lot of effort. I love to dig and get dirty and feel blessed each and every time I can make it out to collect. I did a little prospecting behind the apartment compex where I live in Gastonia, NC. There is a bank adjacent to the main road the circles the entire complex. It has eroded somewhat leaving a lot of quartz exposed. I have found garnet, pyrite and a couple quartz xls. Who would have thought all I had to do was walk out the door and there would be specimens to collect. Now every time I see a plowed field or a freshly cleared piece of land, I see an opportunity. Thanks again to everyone!

[rockshine]

Right on Mitch. When a nonRocker who has seen the travel and treasure program asks me, Where is the best place to go to hunt rocks, I always tell them, "In your own back yard." If you enjoy rocks enough that even the abundance of the local stuff gets you looking, then you are ready to explore outward.
Now, since williamb is an international trader, maybe we can get him to import some rock hounders mushrooms from Syria. The story goes that when Alexander the Great was returning from his foray's thru Persia, his men found a mess of wild mushrooms and chowed down on them, with no apparent ill effects, except that every man felt compelled to stoop and turn over every rock he encountered. The man behind him would stoop and turn over the same rock, and the man behind him...etc.

[hydrogeologist]

Rockshine, I couldn't agree with you more. Right up the street from my house in Baltimore is the old Alphaeus Wright Quarry (now covered over by a new building on the Johns Hopkins Homewood campus). I decided to explore the creek that flows by it and discovered it cuts through several pegmatite dikes. I spent an afternoon breaking rocks I found in the gravel bars and discovered prismatic blue apatites, schorl tourmaline, limonite ps. pyrite, almandines to 1/2", massive blue fluorapatite and thulite. I can proudly say that I can actually collect in my backyard and find crystallized mineral specimens.

Pretty cool for Baltimore city if you ask me! So Ryan, you'd be surprised where cool material turns up!

Lawrence

[chromite]

Heh, I was at the NC Zoo with my daughter and we were talking to a volunteer. I looked down and saw an odd shaped piece of gravel which turned out to be a piece of a crinoid stem. She said that the gravel was local. That of course gave me a new mission in my geologic tour of North Carolina. So it's best to always just keep your eyes open. I tooled around a construction site Sunday looking for stuff in the Rolesville Granite.

[rockshine]

This will be a rehash of some of the other advice already posted but it may open up a slightly different approach to learning. First, visit a known area, even if it is pretty well picked over: if you don't find the gems, at least load up on the country rock, the matrix and tailings boulders, label thet location, then if and when you read about the area, you will have samples to compare to what is described. You will learn far more about the rock by looking than by just hearing someone describe it. You will need similar rocks from several different areas for consultation, cause different areas look a little different. If you have only seen grey granite, you may not easily recognize pink granite. The amphibole on Chunky Gal is green: other places have only "black" amphibole.
So rule # 1 is look for familar rocks that you have already seen and identified as associated with collectable minerals. Rule # 2, oddly enough, is ...look for something different than what is everywhere else. Anywhere the rock type is changing, you get a chance of something interesting.

[romare]

Great thread Ryan, and great responses.

In short, learn all you can while not in the field, using all of the resources available. Go out and see if you can find something that is already known to exist in a given locale. If that does not frustrate you to the point of quitting (and/or you actually find some of it), begin to speculate on how you think specific deposits occurred and test your hypotheses with actual labor! Fail. Repeat. Probably most important is to be dogged in your pursuit of both knowledge and material. Listen to everything that anyone has to say and formulate strategies not based on popular opinion but rather critical thinking and actual experience. Oh yeah, this part takes a while. Fail some more. Even failure is useful information that can be overlain to create a more precise picture of the goal.

As often as possible find something that makes you sit in the dirt in a state of prayer and open-mouthed wonder.

And, listen to Rob. He's been there and done it.

Mark

[traveler]

Here's my method......I'm a googler. I start with the location I will be visiting and then do multiple searches and each time I add a keyword or Rockhound buzzword. This takes some guessing as to what might be there and then each site you look at will give you more. My best solo find was on a trip to Grand Cayman. Here is a sample of how made my finds....
Grand Cayman quartz......no luck
Grand cayman agate....no luck
Grand cayman pegmatite...no luck
OK it's not a mountain
Grand cayman limestone.......huge hits
Grand Cayman Dolomite (old limestone)...now we're getting somewhere
Grand Cayman geology.....now we know that the east side is older than the west.
along the search, there is a new term encounterd........CAYMANITE.
To make a long story longer.....after a $5 bus ride, I found some greast CAYMANITE and speleotheum (cave onyx).
There is so much info on the net. You just need to guide your search and read all of the published papres on the area.
Search theis site and you'll see my finds

[Ryan]

Romare, thats what Im talkin about! Example: Spruce Pine area shows massive amounts of Pegmatite. As the ridge continues north, along 105, the pegs seem to diminish, then in boone, there are very few signs of peg. Theres a lot of decomposing garnetiferous mica/shist. North of Boone, In Ashe and Allegheny Co's, I find more Peg. Simpler, few accessory minerals, but Peg. I also noticed Pegs on 80 up into Tennessee.

So now I ride to the VA line near Mt. Airy on both 421, 77 and the Parkway. I also travel up 221, to 21, to Independence VA. Its starting to get more sedimentary here. Shales and such. Boooo., Very few signs of Peg. I am following what I perceive to be the "ridge". From what I read, it pops up again in.... amelia VA? Ok...So WHERE IS IT BETWEEN THERE AND HERE!!

That may be a very ill informed and uneducated conundrum, but its an exaple of how Im thinking. I have these maps Ive concocted and I use a different colored dot for garnet, peg, shist, quartz, pyrite, gniess, etc. and a brown hashmark pattern for sedimentary rocks. Ive been computing and exploring and connecting-the-dots. I am trying to discern "belts". I have topo maps and geologic maps and have made highway transparencies with towns of 1000+ pop. that I overlay and plan with in my "war-room" This is the kind of stuff I do. Am I an idiot? Wait...dont answer that.... Let me rephrase... Is this futile? Or do you think persistance and continued work on this little project is worthwhile? Does anyone else do this? This is the kind of thing Im asking about. Im continuously on the "intarweb" looking for obscure old texts and graduate geology program theses from NC students. I have tracked down some old texts in books, primarily about alexander co. I have an unnatural obscession with Hiddenite area geology (which is fantastic because the whole frickin area is private property).

So my rant is over. Thats the kind of data collecting I do. The maps were dumb for a while. But now that Ive been at it so long....Lo and Behold! Patterns emerge!!! Whoa! Anyone wanna weigh in on this? Tell me Im barking up the wrong tree? Explain how pegs and mineral belts ebb and flow, rise and sink? Or maybe share some texts or documentation you keep? My quartz-belt has already led me to a crystal fragment or two in a creekbed. Now I need to explore more to find their source. This local is currently classified. If I find the source, ill letcha all in.

I'm in this for real. Im still a noob, but my collection is now growing exponentially, my garage is beginning to look like the Ray Mine spoil piles, and my rock vocabulary is starting to confuse my friends and family. If I dont buy or collect a rock in 2 weeks or so I shiver, shake on the floor, run a fever, and dig throgh the cats litter box while hallucinating. Its a sad sad condition, rockhound withdrawl, that is...

So I think Im on the verge of becoming a real rockhound. I just need to continue learning and yall have made that possible and a pleasure. So thanks for the continued input. Lets keep it going! Lets make this thread a continuing wealth of prosepecting methodology and success and failure stories!

P.S. That "wildcat" prospecting sounds like the LIFE! Nature, Rocks, and MONEY! All the scopion stings, spiders, and thorns and hard clay in the world couldnt make that un-fun

[hydrogeologist]

Do you have the geological maps for the states you're researching? They're usually published and available from the USGS or the state's geological survey, and I'm sure most of them are online or available for download. They're a really good way to start narrowing down areas that might be worth beginning your research on as they show the underlying geology of the state. I know Maryland's was last updated in 1968, but that's still new enough to begin a rough search if you ask me. For example, it illustrates that most of the state's pegmatites are in Howard and Carroll Counties but there are scattered pegs in Baltimore County, all of which have been confirmed by deeper research and extensive field work.

I'm sure that your homemade maps would jibe when you overlay them with state-generated maps, but why not start with maps that have already been created by state geologists based on historical finds, known ocurrences and/or outcrops, and past geologic research and papers?

[Ryan]

Thanks Lawrence, yes, I do have the bedrock maps for NY to SC. I got one for Maine as well but dont plan on being there anytime soon. Ive only made it to Maine once in 32 years soooo....you get the picture. But the rest is my sales territory so I know most of the backroads and thru-ways like I was a local. I keep them in a binder that travels with me. I lay my highway tracing transparencies over them and look for roads that traverse the boundaries of said formations. Is that what you would do?

[hydrogeologist]

I would couple the state geologic maps with historic mineral ocurrence maps, strategic war minerals reports, USGS specialty maps and online research. Everything I could get my hands on. Once you have a good base and documented areas to explore, get out there, drive the roads that cut through your target areas, check outcrops and creek beds, pry the brains of locals, and be persistent.

One other wealth of information that hasn't been mentioned yet is historical societies. Once you've found a base area to explore, e.g. a county or township, go and check with the local historical society. Most historical societies contain a wealth of information in documents, personal accounts, photographs, etc. of what's happened over the years, including local mines, and most of them are willing to share information because they want to keep it alive and accessible. I've even seen mineral collections that have been amassed by local historical societies that you wouldn't even know existed unless you paid them a visit.

[arappaho]

Yep, Ryan, you got it bad, but you got this thread going good!

Good mention on the Historical Societies, Lawrence. It's a long shot
but you never know what you might stumble across. Some localities
claims-to-fame are insane, ridiculous and embarrassing, but some
are about rocks and minerals, too.

And yes, Ryan, I believe we all do the mapping of our "turf". You
gotta do it. I remember when I first started "exploring" you could buy
a set of black and white 2'x3' maps of every county in NC for $25.00
from DOT. They had every little dirt/gravel road on them. I would
cut out 5 or 6 counties along their borders at a time and tape them
all together. Then I traced all the rivers and creeks in blue marker.
They were great for marking in the areas I had searched and what
was found, or not. I rolled them up and had these big cardboard
tubes with the names of the counties written on the outside of
each one. Came up with a color code for what was found at each
new site.
Now I just use the DeLorme Gazateer and have it on my computer
as well. The topo info is a big help. When I go to a new area I
just print out a blow-up of the area and can mark on it as I want.
You open my Gazateer and all these blow-up pages fall out all
over the place.
Maybe one day I'll get one of those little I-phones that do all of that.

There's always more to know. The geologic maps are a great tool
but there's no substitute for personal exploration. I don't really
care if I find something everytime I go out, I enjoy just looking.
I kind-of look at it as paying my dues. Got to wear down some
tires and shoes before you find something nice. But by far the
easiest way to do that is LISTEN. Listen to the locals and listen
to the ones that have been there before you. Books don't talk
like that.

Rant On!
Joe

[Ryan]

Quite encouraging testimony, Lawrence! I appreciate the input! Not only yourself but all the "4-star" and "5-star" generals of MAGMA.

Joe, glad to know Im not the only guy printing huge maps and knowing my red squares are mica and the blue dot is quartz and the yellow star is pyrite and so on and so forth.... ;D

Rockshine, I like your idea about gathering various matrix rock just to know what youre looking at. Fourtunatly, because of my distance from NC, I almost always grab a huge bucketfull or two of matrix to take home and bust up when I run out of time in the state or daylight at the mine. That means I have tons of feldspar and bull quartz and barren gniess, quartzite and shist. LOL

Chromite, you mention Rolesville granite. That is clinch to me. You know the formation names. Thats the geology book stuff I still need to learn. I know a few formations in my area from hunting fossils and rare Wurtzite and Sphalerite w/ Calcite and Barite miniatures. But I know verrrrry little of the NC formation names. Other than Brevard Fault Zone, Raleigh belt, and Blue Ridge formation, I havnt even started to learn that stuff, but ID sure like to!

Mr. Steve Barr, you were adamant as to the value of talking to locals. It must be true because after you said it, 5 other members echoed your advice. Good call my friend. Oh, also, teach me how to speak "Bear" so when Im in the wilderness, and there ARE no humans, I can still find local residents to ask about minerals I wanna learn black bear, ok? Grizzley just isnt spoken in this area and I tried taking Koala and Panda in college, I cant pronounce the R's and L's, Hopefully black bear is easier on the phonetics.

Romare, you may have hit the nail on the head the best, my man. You said one thing I really liked: CRITICAL THINKING. Something that is dramatically dissappearing in America these days (Just look at the local group of teenagers at the local strip mall.....or the US Congress.)

I want to organize and coordinate my data, and maps, and learn some habits and traits of certain formations to CRITICALLY THINK and possibly even predict outcrops and/or occurances and then go do the legwork and test my predictions. Who knows, maybe Ill find the next NC emerald location! (Hey, optimism cant never do no harm ) But hell, Id be really frickin happy just finding a previously unknown local for quartz points. Lucky ducks Joe and Scott do it, why cant I !?! (Besides the fact they have vast knowlege of the area and superior digging techniques over me....but Im workin on it, ok? )

SOOOOOOO, The next phase in this awesome thread (If y'all would like to) is I believe, to start digging into the arenas of technique and tell-tale signs. Anyone have prospecting stories about certain locales where the mica led them to the rutile? Or the presence of certain rust stains led them to a spectacular hematite or magnetite deposit? Howabout signs of when youre about to hit!?
Anyone dig all day on rock that "tinked" and then all of a sudden "THUD-D-D-D-D" And a pocket of lovely crystals opens its mouth and says AAAAAH? I know yall have more wisdom. This thread has 25 replies and growing, lets keep it going and make it a great resource! Maybe we can direct new members to this site once it has enough data and professional testimony? Thanks so far, thanks a million! Im learning so much and feeling validated in some of my existing practices! MAGMA ROCKS!!!

P.S. SIGNS OF ROCK ADDICTION. No. 324
"When one buys the more expensive cat litter over the bagged or boxed stuff JUST because it comes in a big yellow bucket that may serve well for carrying dirt and rocks."

[robwhaley]

Hey Ryan,
Do you ever sleep? I see posts from you all times of night.
No one has yet mentioned June Culp Zeitner's book, APPALACHIAN GEM TRAILS (1968). It has a whole section devoted to NC and SC collecting by county and location. Sure, it's full of hearsay and fantastic references to this treasure here and that pot of gold over there, but it also has some legitimate information that can be followed up on. In particular she mentions old-time collectors, what and where they found good stuff, AND the names of locals, farms, mines, etc where there were good finds. For example, on page 90 she refers to a good corundum location on the J.H. Edmonson property at Retreat, 6 miles SE of Waynesville. I have never checked it, but knowing how mountain families persist on their land, you can bet there are still some Edmonsons over there that likely know something about the property. For every ephemeral location in Zeitner's book, there is likely another one that is legitimate. Also, don't overlook ROCKS AND MINERALS magazine, especially from the 1940s, 50s, and 60s. They used to have a feature about new finds, and often they were in the Carolinas. There was a section where local rockhounds offered to take people collecting...their children and grandchildren may know something you could use. Even the old ads may be productive. I remember seeing one from 1958 for Gerald Medd, who had a rockshop near Asheville. Unbelievably, he was alive and still selling local rocks at the flea market at Fletcher in 2000. I got to buy a nice Macon Co. sapphire from him and pick his brain about some of the collecting he did in the "good old days." The 50s, 60s, and 70s were the golden age of collecting in the Carolinas, and there are still some rockhounds around who can give you their first-hand knowledge of collecting sites. Now that they are less active in field collecting, they are not so tight lipped about their locations.
By the way, you may hear some people say, "all the good stuff is gone, that location is exhausted, etc. etc." Don't believe it. I was told the same thing in the 1970s and have been able to field collect thousands of good Carolina specimens.

[chromite]

What you are finding is the bridge between the academic side of geology and the colloquial, more hands on side of rock-hounding. Rockhounds have an extraordinary sense of locating the accessory minerals that have personal or real value. Geologists as a group really have a wide range of interests, from planetary geology to sedimentary geology to economic geology. Often times, the two groups have completely different sets of values. This is why looking at geologic maps will only give you part of the picture.

What you described on your trip north from Spruce Pine would be a tour of thrust faults. Imagine a moving van with only a few things placed in it; a sofa, lamp table, television, maybe a rug. Let everything get nice and dusty then drive the van down one of those two lane mountain roads. When you open the van up, that's very similar to what you can expect plate tectonics to do when volcanic arcs and continents collide. Sometimes the dust gets scraped away, the lamp table might get broken between the sofa and the television and you get pieces of it here and there between the two objects, etc.

What you are doing is rudimentary field geology, and I find it commendable! But as others have said, talk to people, that's what geologists do when they are looking for outcrops.

I did find lots of intriguing igneous structures and a few near baseball size K-feldspar crystals, but probably nothing of interest for most casual rockhounds. The different granites(igneous bodies) you find have different ages, chemistries, and origins, leading to different mineralogies. Um, I need to wrap this up or I will ramble. I'm rather interested in looking near the boundaries of the ultramafic rocks with the surrounding country rock, especially younger granites.

[rocksmarsandstars]

Ryan,
Step Two of rockhounds anonymous: Acknowledge a 'higher level of knowledge'-there is so much for all of us to learn and do...
Rick,
Some of us collect lots of samples b/c we live so far away from the goodies-I drive an avg. of 4.5 hours to get to a good magma dig. Also, on 'snow days' nothing is cooler than smacking a few 'yard rocks' and coming up with a new collectible (this happens pretty often with my JXR matrix pieces, for example).
As for local prospecting, I have found some really cool petrified wood, cretaceous shark teeth, and other goodies, courtesy of some parents of kids my daughter played softball with!
The knowledge as many of you have pointed out, is everywhere!

[mitch]

Just came across this book while I was doing some google searches. It is titled "Corundum and the peridotites of Western North Carolina" by Joseph Pratt and Joseph Lewis written in 1905. Just started looking at a few pages but seems to be full of interesting stuff. Here is the link

books.google.com/books?id=eb8JAAAAIAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=corundum+and+the+peridotites+of+western+north+carolina&source=bl&ots=wP3jjJLNgZ&sig=5lrwPL6U8wGTaXhTuZX3TH6Hvys&hl=en&ei=tig3TZGYLsOqlAe_4JyYAw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&sqi=2&ved=0CBMQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false