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Post by rickb29212 on Jan 13, 2008 17:15:02 GMT -5
Hi folks. This is my first post in the artifact section. I've enjoyed looking at the photos and have decided to post photos of mine on the board. Most of the points and tools have been collected by me since the early sixties - I still manage to pick a piece up here and there. Most are from South Carolina, a skinning knife from Ohio, a couple points from New Jersey, several from Georgia and a couple from Arizona. I came from a family that did a lot of hunting and fishing which put me in areas where the indians had hunted and fished. Arrowhead collecting is what first got me interested in rocks and minerals. Most of the points are quartz or quartzite, several are made of material most likely from the Savannah river area. I have a couple of larger pieces at my mothers house that have been in their yard since the seventies. The pieces are stones that the indians ground grain, etc on and also have indentations on them where nuts were cracked on. I'll go take some photos of them soon and post them also. Enjoy the photos. Rick B. Arrowheads in cyprus wood shadowbox. Quarter in top left of frame for size comparison.  Arrowheads and tools, trade pipes, pottery, etc. on rug. Quarter in center of photo for size comparison.  Closeup of bird points and tools. Notice the small piece of bone with carved lines on it. It's the piece a couple inches below the quarter and one inch to the right. Marrow side of bone is on the other side of the piece.  |
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Post by claycat on Jan 14, 2008 8:30:02 GMT -5
Wow, what a great collection!
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Post by snakewrangler on Jan 14, 2008 8:36:29 GMT -5
Thats is an amazing collection that you have!  Kyle |
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Post by arappaho on Jan 14, 2008 20:04:51 GMT -5
Hey Rick, Thanks for posting the pics. I know you went to some trouble to arrange all the pieces on the blanket, but it looks like it was worth it! Nice collection!
I love the grooved axes and don't usually see them that long and narrow. You've got some
beautiful points there, but if you said I had to pick one, just one, I would have to choose the
long skinny quartz point just above the Savannah River at 9:00 in the frame. It has little ears on the bottom of it but I can't make out from the pic if it is fluted. Not to say that the oldest is always the bestest, but it helps. Do you know where you found that one and what it is called?
Thanks again, Joe.
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Post by rickb29212 on Jan 14, 2008 22:09:59 GMT -5
Joe, glad you like the pictures. It was about time that I took some photos of them and I figured outdoors on the blanket would be best to get them all in the shot. That long narrow one in the picture frame isn't fluted and the photo doesn't show that it's a very light grey slate type material (I found that one near Columbia SC and the point was sticking straight up out of the ground). The one that has a little fluting to it is that brown Savannah river agate one. Rick B.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Hey Rick, Thanks for posting the pics. I know you went to some trouble to arrange all the pieces on the blanket, but it looks like it was worth it! Nice collection!
I love the grooved axes and don't usually see them that long and narrow. You've got some
beautiful points there, but if you said I had to pick one, just one, I would have to choose the
long skinny quartz point just above the Savannah River at 9:00 in the frame. It has little ears on the bottom of it but I can't make out from the pic if it is fluted. Not to say that the oldest is always the bestest, but it helps. Do you know where you found that one and what it is called?
Thanks again, Joe.
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Post by indyme2 on Jan 15, 2008 10:55:09 GMT -5
Great finds. I see Guilfords, Morrow Mountain 1 & 2, Adena, Palmer and many others. Several thousands of years represented here. I'd like to see a close up of the point arappaho mentioned and the long one at about 4 o'clock, in the first picture. I collect everything but get the biggest thrill when I find Indian artifacts. Thanks for sharing with us.
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Post by rickb29212 on Jan 15, 2008 18:48:58 GMT -5
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Post by arappaho on Jan 15, 2008 22:34:10 GMT -5
Holy Cow, Rick! Thanks for the close ups!!! They make all the difference.
BUT, I am going to have to stick with my first choice. ( If that's all I get.)
I think you have the nicest Hardaway I've ever seen. Actually, I want to
call it a Clovis, but the ears at the bottom and dagger like overall shape
make me say Hardaway. That looks like a real nice flute to me and the rock
is commonly called Rhyolite from the slate belt. Man-O-Man is it a pretty one.
What do you think Indy?
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Post by rickb29212 on Jan 15, 2008 22:57:07 GMT -5
Thanks Arappaho, I just measured that point and it comes out to 70mm or 2 7/8". It was sticking point up straight out of the ground on the edge of a narrow path next to a creek. One of the smallest quartz points I ever found came from that area. I believe there may be a trailer park sitting on top of the site now. Rick B.
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Post by arappaho on Jan 16, 2008 0:06:57 GMT -5
Well Rick, you may want to rent one of those trailors for a few months and
take up gardening. That spot sounds like a REAL good one!
I don't know if you know this but the Hardaway Site is just above the Dam
at Badin Lake on the Yadkin River, Stanley Co., NC. It was excavated by
Joffre Coe in the 1950's, who named the point type. In his description of
the point he says,"Length: Range, 50-mm-80; average 70mm." The Hardaway
site is one of only two prehistoric sites on the National Register in NC. That area
of the Uwharrie Mtns. was where the natives quarried alot of their meta-volcanic
rock. If you scroll up to the fourth pic from the bottom of the close-ups, that point in
the bottom left corner is made out of a finely banded rhyolite very probably from
Morrow Mtn. in that same area of the Uwharrie Mtns. It is called a Kirk Corner Notch
and was also named by Joffre Coe from the Hardaway excavations.
Just a bit of trivia. Joe
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Post by indyme2 on Jan 16, 2008 6:55:30 GMT -5
Arappaho, I spied that point and possible Clovis got me shaking. I've only actually seen two from SC that were confirmed and given paper documentation. Great points!
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Post by arappaho on Jan 16, 2008 21:16:43 GMT -5
Well, I know what you mean, Indy. It's still got me shaking. So Guys, I still want to call it a Clovis. ie: the oldest point type in this hemishere. The Holy Grail for artifact collectors. You know that little foot at the bottom is only on one side and the flute is beautiful. Maybe its maker was in some sort of a time warp somewhere between 12,000 and 11,000 BC and forgot which type he was making??? Rick, I am assuming you still reside somewhere in SC. I suggest you take it in to Al Goodyear and see what he has to say about it. He would be the authority in that area. He eats, sleeps. and breaths those things and I am sure he would want to see it. He would very probably also want to include it in his fluted point survey of SC. For this he would want to know where it came from. The Columbia area would probably be enough info to satisfy him, BUT, if there is a trailor park on the site now and you would lose nothing by telling him the exact location, that would be preferred. The exact information is invaluable in the big picture. If you reside in NC I would suggest Dr. Randy Daniel at East Carolina University. They both would love to see it. You can contact Goodyear at; www.allenale-expedition.net. Looks like you have a Hardaway-Dalton in that frame that he would like to see as well, not to mention others.......and, ofcouse, keep us posted. Joe |
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Post by rickb29212 on Jan 17, 2008 14:27:16 GMT -5
Joe and Indy. I'm in Columbia SC and have already planned on going down to the Topper Site this spring when they open it up for visitors. Dr. Goodyear visited our club (CG&MS) here in Columbia last fall and invited us down there. I'll take the point then and update this thread when I get results. Maybe he'll come to Columbia and take that trailer park down and do some landscaping. best, Rick B.
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Post by hardawaybadin on Jan 18, 2008 18:07:26 GMT -5
Heres another opinion-def not a hardaway or a clovis. Ear on long point,if intentionally knapped,would prob make it an eared yadkin. The second pt. up,on left side of frame,from the long pt Iwould also call an eared yadkin(brown pt.) The opposite side,of the long pt., does not have a very distinct ear but many times that is the case with these pts.
It appears that this long pts. ear could have been produced by unintentional means(non human). In that case the pt would poss be classified as an uwharrie. Most likely this pt. is an eared yadkin.
For a decent pt, typology guide see, Robert M Overstreets,INDIAN ARROWHEADS identification and price guide.also The formative cultures of the carolina piedmont by Joffre Lanning Coe and Town Creek Indian Mound-Coe
SOUTHERN PINES ARTIFACT SHOW(free admission) 2-09-08,8:00am-3:00pm, DAYS INN,US HWY1 at MORGANTON Rd.. SOUTHERN PINES, NC Sponsored by the Piedmont Archaeological society. On the way home stop by the Rankin Museum in Ellerbe NC-see their web site. Nice artifact collection,18and19th century collection that depicts life in the Piedmont.,some minerals.
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Post by rickb29212 on Jan 20, 2008 19:00:32 GMT -5
As promised I took some photos of the three large rocks that grain, etc. were ground on. I found these by the Saluda River near Columbia SC in the late sixties. I also found many points made of quartz and several from slate at that site. Rick B. Oh, as seen in these photos, the grass is still green down here in Columbia. It's called winter rye. The first was worked on one side only  A shot of the front and the back of the second one   Front and back of the third one. Notice the smaller indentations where nuts were cracked   |
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Post by claycat on Jan 21, 2008 8:17:10 GMT -5
Oh, I love this thread, keep them coming!  |
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Post by arappaho on Jan 21, 2008 11:52:22 GMT -5
Thanks, Rickb, those are beauties! You have the whole ensemble. I'm glad you took the time, and effort, to haul them home with you. Hey Hardawaybadin, Glad to hear from you. I've been wondering about some of the other folks on the board with artifact related names. Thanks for the heads up on the Southern Pines show. A friend and I displayed some of our collections at the 2004 Salisbury show. One of my axeheads won best in show. I will try and get a pic posted. Also want to thank you for your other opinion. Stating different opinions is the only way to get a good dialogue going. I have to say I thought about the Earred-Yadkin as a possibility for the ' suspect Clovis '. You may be right, but I'm thinking it is still too long,( by about 10 mm or a silly little inch), and too fluted to be an arrowhead. I am anxiously awaiting what Rick finds out about it in the spring. It is very hard to analyze a point from a picture. You really have to be able to turn it over in your hands and look at both sides to come to a decision. But, for the sake of healthy respectful debate, I am going to have to disagree about the jasper point being an Earred Yadkin as well. It looks too broad to fit in that category and, most of all, the flaking is too large. Percussion flaking is apparent on it and usually you will only see fine pressure flaking on the Yadkins. I'm not sure what to call it, tho, but would probably lump it in with Early Archaic. I HAVE seen some arrowheads made from that material at sites along the Yadkin River, but usually associate it with southeastern VA and northeastern and coastal NC. Just thought I would throw that in for discussion. Joe |
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Post by arappaho on Jan 21, 2008 17:23:18 GMT -5
Here's a pic of the axehead I was talking about, plus another. I figured I do them both at the same time because I didn't really "find" them. And, as you can see, I'm not really set-up yet for taking good pics.  The grooved axe in the back is flat on the bottom so it is called a 3/4 grooved axe. The axe in the front has no groove so it is called a celt. The celt is just under 8 inches long. I "found" the grooved axe being used as a doorstop in a house I was working at some years ago, and I told the man that I thought it was too nice to be used in that way. When I finished what I was doing and was getting ready to go the man said,"Why don't you take that axehead with you." I told him that that was not what I was getting at. He said someone had given it to him and was I going to put it my car or make him do it. I did it. The celt I "found" when I was out at a mans house looking to purchase some rock. It was thrown in a box with a bunch of odd and end rocks. Again I made a comment about how nice it was and how it might get beat up in that box with all those other rocks. I ended up buying several pounds of obsidian and jasper from him, and he said for me to go ahead and take that old axe head, too. I didn't want to argue. There is only one other artifact in my collection that I did not find. It is a very large spearpoint that my wife bought for me at the Grassy Creek Show. She paid quite a bit for it, and it turns out that it is 'modern' made. I keep it as a reminder of what can happen when you buy artifacts, and because I'm not sure what else to do with it. |
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Post by Chigoe on Jan 21, 2008 20:41:29 GMT -5
Very nice grooved Axe and Celt. Y'all keep this up I'm going to have to post some pictures of the artifacts I've found on this side of the Savannah River.
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Post by rickb29212 on Jan 22, 2008 6:52:11 GMT -5
Nice grooved axe and celt Arappaho. I have a celt somewhere and 1/2 of a grooved axe similar to that one that you have. The other half of it is somewhere in a field along a local river that is now a historic site and off limits to collecting.
Chigoe, please post some photos of those GA points and tools. I'd like to see some and I'm sure others will also. Best, Rick B.
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Post by arappaho on Jan 28, 2008 21:47:05 GMT -5
Oh, What the heck. I'll give it another post. You know since this board is Latest Finds, I have been wanting to only post pics of stuff I have found recently.  These are some Hardaway-Daltons. They date to about 11,000 years ago. The middle one I found about three months ago. It was lying all by itself in a developement not far from me. I have been back several times to see if I could find that 'missing foot'! I know it is there somewhere because it is a fresh break. I guess I'm going to have to live without it. The other two I found years ago in a field above the Haw River. I found them about 20 feet and 4 years apart. Hope to have some pics of some "new" finds real soon. One can only hope! |
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Post by arappaho on Feb 4, 2008 18:33:34 GMT -5
Allright folks, sit back in your seats, the suspense is over.  I met rickb at the Crabtree dig this weekend and he brought the 'suspect' Clovis with him. Hardawaybadin was right, it is an Earred Yadkin. It's a long one,tho. What looked like a possible flute were actually just some basal thinning flakes up from the bottom of the piece. It's still a beauty, just 10,000 years more recent. And, FYI Mr. Hb, those basal thinning flakes look like percussion flakes, so so much for the theory that you don't see percussion flaking on Yadkins. The other point that you said you thought was an Earred Yadkin as well, well, you may be right about that one too. I thought it looked like Jasper in the pic, but after talking to Rickb, he said it is made out of the coastal plain chert and thin enough to be semi-translucent when held up to the light. So much for me trying to analyze a point from a picture.  But, on the bright side of things, it was great to meet Rickb. After the ice 'storm' of Thursday night and Friday morning up there, Saturday and Sunday were absolutely beautiful and we were the last to leave Sunday afternoon. The front wheels of our trucks barely touching the ground the beds were so full of emeralds.  |
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Post by lee on Feb 6, 2008 16:03:57 GMT -5
Joe:
I'm glad you posted your three pictures of the Hardaway heads. I am going back through my collection to see if I have any with the shape shown in your picture. I have always though that the Hardaway heads had a more pronounces base with better defined foot.
Lee
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Post by arappaho on Feb 6, 2008 18:33:07 GMT -5
Hey Lee, Long time no see. Yes, those three are Hardaway-Daltons. Basically, chronologically speaking, they are the ones that came after the Clovis in this area. You may be thinking of what is called the Side-Notched Hardaway, with the well defined little feet.  The one in the middle of this frame is a Side-Notched Hardaway. The Daltons are a little older than the Side-Notched and the Side-Notched are the last of the great line of Hardaways. I know you have ATLEAST one Side-Notched in your collection, but cannot remember if you have any Daltons. After you get done going thru them PLEASE post a pic of your Hardaways. I would love to see them. Good to hear from you, Joe. |
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Post by hardawaybadin on Feb 6, 2008 23:54:17 GMT -5
For an interesting read on a stratified site,located on the Rocky River,N.C., web search , Baucom Hardaway Site.
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Post by hardawaybadin on Feb 8, 2008 19:41:41 GMT -5
Also one of the best Indian artifact sites,ive seen on the web, is Sonandersonartifacts.com. Click on Home to get their message board. It shows Southeastern pts. mostly Florida.
Lots of good info. on finding fossils ,agatized coral and diving in Florida.plus discussion on legal aspects of collecting. Bill
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Post by arappaho on Feb 8, 2008 23:16:31 GMT -5
Hey Bill, You are right about the Baucom Hardaway Site. Great site and good example of how our NC professionals stepped up to help with the investigations. (sarcasm). It's a little late for me to say, but anyone interested in purchasing a copy could do so at the Southern Pines show. You have probably already seen it, but a good recent article by the same author is, csasi.org/2003_fall_journal/cumberland_fluted_points_from_kentucky_and_tennessee.htm. I mention it because of the discussion about Rickbs' Earred Yadkin. I took a look at the Son Anderson site. Interesting site on Florida artifacts. You know, I have not spent much time trying to become familiar with Florida point typology because it is so different and varied. And, really, I have not considered it a part of the Southeastern US, but more an area all of its own. Now I can see why and that I am not alone. The typology has been and is very confusing. I like what Mr. Anderson is doing with that site and his attention on typology is very interesting. There are more similarities to the rest of the Southeast than I thought. I read the Article section and will have to check into the site some more. Great pics of the different beautiful lithic materials. Thanks for the post. Joe |
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Post by arappaho on Feb 9, 2008 21:50:11 GMT -5
Oops, sorry. That link doesn't seem to be working.
If you would like to read the article, google its title;
"Cumberland Fluted Points from Kentucky and Tennessee".
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Post by rickb29212 on Feb 13, 2008 22:47:34 GMT -5
Joe and all, for your viewing, here are some misc. stone tools that I've had stored away since the late 1980's, so you can say that I've recently re-found them - grinders, mortars, cutting tools, points, scrapers, pottery, axes, hammerstones. Also three photos of a polished cone shaped stone with a small indentation on the flat side. I believe it was used to support a drill bow or fire bow. All the tools have been worked, some have been chipped out and others have sides ground down and shaped. Now, if I look a little more, I hope to find those gaming stones I've misplaced. best, Rick B Points, scrapers    Celt     Mortar    Ground on both flat sides and around edge  Ground on top and bottom, flat on sides  Heavy cutting/chopping tool - edge chipped out   Polished cone shaped stone discoidal with indent on flat side     |
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Post by arappaho on Feb 16, 2008 9:27:17 GMT -5
Oh yeah, Nice stuff, Rick. I would love to be able to sit down and go thru that
stuff with you sometime. Real nice celts and/or axe heads. That one white piece
that looks like a pipe fragment with an effigy on the front of it? And there's probably
a name for that stone used to apply pressure to the drill bit with a bow rig but I
can't think of what it would be now. I definately agree with you that that's what it is.
And just to give you an idea about the transition a used rock could possibly go thru;
What if that piece started out as the butt end of a ground celt or axehead that
was either broken or exhausted, and then was used with the bow drill. And after
being used for a long time with the bow drill and hollowed out it would/could be used
as a small stone cup or paint bowl. ( Like I said, just to illustrate the possibilities.)
And the pottery is great. Nice big sherds. You can tell ALOT as far as date and culture
by the pottery.
Thanks for posting the pics and I hope you find alot of nice crystals this weekend at
Due West and DHill.
Joe
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